Dempsey vs Tunney number of rounds ?

[The plunger man]

I was just wondering why both the Dempsey vs Tunney fights were only over 10 rounds and not the usual 15 round distance ...it was for the world title so I’m not sure why

[Willie Pep 229]

I was just wondering why both the Dempsey vs Tunney fights were only over 10 rounds and not the usual 15 round distance ...it was for the world title so I’m not sure why

I can speak to Dempsey-Tunney II -- Dempsey wanted the fight to go 15 but the State of Illinois wouldn't allow it. -- Tunney's attitude regarding the expansion to 15 went unstated as Billy Gibson knew Dempsey/Flynn would never get it by the State.

Don't know the regulations involving Pennsylvania (Dempsey-Tunney I, 1926)

New York was a 15 round State and New Jersey a 12 round State.

Here is Dempsey's request as reported by the NYT August 11th 19127. The appeal was rejected.

[The plunger man]

I can speak to Dempsey-Tunney II -- Dempsey wanted the fight to go 15 but the State of Illinois wouldn't allow it. -- Tunney's attitude regarding the expansion to 15 went unstated as Billy Gibson knew Dempsey/Flynn would never get it by the State.

Don't know the regulations involving Pennsylvania (Dempsey-Tunney I, 1926)

New York was a 15 round State and New Jersey a 12 round State.

Here is Dempsey's request as reported by the NYT August 11th 19127. The appeal was rejected.

so in the early 20’s each state had there own rules and regulations...when did it become mandatory for each state to have the same number of rounds in for world title fights.

10 rounds seemed to favour Tunney in my opinion

[QueensburyRules]

so in the early 20’s each state had there own rules and regulations...when did it become mandatory for each state to have the same number of rounds in for world title fights.

10 rounds seemed to favour Tunney in my opinion

- -They fought in the states most amenable to a big title fight within their rules.

Precious few states allowed such high profile fights then. Tex did a stellar tightrope.

[Willie Pep 229]

so in the early 20’s each state had there own rules and regulations...when did it become mandatory for each state to have the same number of rounds in for world title fights.

10 rounds seemed to favour Tunney in my opinion

Actually the literal answer (I think) would be never.

As late as the mid-'30s Joe Louis had a title defense against Bob Pastor scheduled for 20 rounds (in Detroit). It seems sometime after the Second World War 15 rounds became codified by the NBA (WBA) but I don't have any empirical proof as to when it happened. The NYSAC on the other hand was already using 15 rounds, certainly since the '20s.

Conjecture: The NBA represented 11 western States. I think the other States realized the reality and all moved to accepting 15 round fights for fear of being left out of the big money fights. I think!

Because the two bodies became the de facto titles people recognized, 15 rounds seemed to become the standard. (With national titles usually 12 rounds.)

But I don't think it happened all at once; there may be States out there that still have different regulations. I don't know; there are several that still don't have (and probably never will have) boxing commissions (Unarmed Combat) in place.

P.S. I think Wisconsin is one. There was, a few years back a big ugly, when a promoter tried to get a blind in one eye Aaron Pryor a fight there (licensed) based on an anti-bias handicap law. There was no Commission to override it and the fight almost came off.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -They fought in the states most amenable to a big title fight within their rules.

Precious few states allowed such high profile fights then. Tex did a stellar tightrope.

I read a quote by Dempsey once where he admitted that by the eight round (Tunney I; Philly) he was content with just surviving the ten rounds. I think after that 3 1/2 year lay off Dempsey might not have survived 15.

I know Tunney is on record claiming if he had had 15 rounds that night in Philly he would have stopped Dempsey.

On the other hand 1927 was different. Dempsey now had the conditioning advantaged. Having prepared for 15 against Sharkey in New York (July) and with Tunney idle for the entire year. I think 15 rounds would have been to Dempsey's advantage in 1927. He looked much stronger in Chicago.

We know he wanted the 15 but Tunney had the Jews on his side and with them more clot with the State Legislature. Al Capone (the Italians) was with Dempsey but his clot didn't expand outside the City.

Tunney/Gibson had the title plus bigger people/money behind him. E.g A. Rothstein.

Near the end of his life (1960) Abe Attell once told Ferdie Pacheco"What people don't understand about Dempsey-Tunney was that it was the Italians against the Jews, and the Jews won." E.g Dempsey's people really did want Dave Barry but they got him, he was there at Billy Gibson's insistence and the State Commission forced Dempsey/Flynn to accept Barry.

[Willie Pep 229]

- -They fought in the states most amenable to a big title fight within their rules.

Precious few states allowed such high profile fights then. Tex did a stellar tightrope.

Sorry buddy, I was answering the wrong post. That was meant for Plunger Man's man remark about Ten Rounds favoring Tunney. Oops!

[Willie Pep 229]

so in the early 20’s each state had there own rules and regulations...when did it become mandatory for each state to have the same number of rounds in for world title fights.

10 rounds seemed to favour Tunney in my opinion

Please see my reply to Queenie regarding your Tunney remark; I got the posts confused. --- short answer I think it worked both ways. -- Sorry for the confusion.

[The plunger man]

I read a quote by Dempsey once where he admitted that by the eight round (Tunney I; Philly) he was content with just surviving the ten rounds. I think after that 3 1/2 year lay off Dempsey might not have survived 15.

I know Tunney is on record claiming if he had had 15 rounds that night in Philly he would have stopped Dempsey.

On the other hand 1927 was different. Dempsey now had the conditioning advantaged. Having prepared for 15 against Sharkey in New York (July) and with Tunney idle for the entire year. I think 15 rounds would have been to Dempsey's advantage in 1927. He looked much stronger in Chicago.

We know he wanted the 15 but Tunney had the Jews on his side and with them more clot with the State Legislature. Al Capone (the Italians) was with Dempsey but his clot didn't expand outside the City.

Tunney/Gibson had the title plus bigger people/money behind him. E.g A. Rothstein.

Near the end of his life (1960) Abe Attell once told Ferdie Pacheco"What people don't understand about Dempsey-Tunney was that it was the Italians against the Jews, and the Jews won." E.g Dempsey's people really did want Dave Barry but they got him, he was there at Billy Gibson's insistence and the State Commission forced Dempsey/Flynn to accept Barry.

That’s what I thought with the 2nd fight...Dempsey seemed more on point and better conditioned

[QueensburyRules]

Sorry buddy, I was answering the wrong post. That was meant for Plunger Man's man remark about Ten Rounds favoring Tunney. Oops!

- -No prob.

Lot of behind the scenes posturing that may or may not be true, but I recall Jacks bro who was his earliest trainer committed suicide the week of the first fight that distressed Jack greatly, such that he couldn't hold down a meal for any length of time.

For the 2nd fight, he seems to have had a genuine case of food poisoning with accompanying bowel outrages.

I also think he was disappointed Wills wouldn't fight the Tunney eliminator the Rickard was using ready the public for their mixed race title fight.

I don't blame Wills at that point, but he and Jack both at their natural end were soon retired.