The Most Complete Boxer Ever

[Rusty Tromboni]

Louis was the far greater more technically sound fighter. His combination punching was second to none. When it comes to heavyweight champions few could parry, block, slip and counter punch like Louis. Joe could effortless go from head to body with blows that could break opponents in half. Look at the left hook to the body Louis lands on B Baer (fight 1) to bring his chin from behind his shoulder. Such a small opening but the follow up right cross on the button was a lethal blow.

That's fine.

Would you say Arguello is better than Hearns, too?

Golovkin is better than Spinks?


Size matters. And there's more to Boxing than offense (and parrying).

P4P Louis is much better. He responded to adversity far better. But he's too small for Lewis, and his opposition was far inferior.

[Rusty Tromboni]

what other boxer has ever done that....none so for me ray leonard was truly the most complete fighter in history.
Tell me who did it better and his only negative was less professional fights but we can blame a lot in that with him suffering a detached retina and if he didn’t lose 3 years out of his prime he would have gone on to beat Aaron Pryor , Donald curry , Mike McCallum etc

Well seeing as how Duran beat Leonard.... I'd say Duran.

Again, Jofre and Lomachenko were also more complete.

Wolgast and Griffith, too.

[The plunger man]

Well seeing as how Duran beat Leonard.... I'd say Duran.

Again, Jofre and Lomachenko were also more complete.

Wolgast and Griffith, too.

Leonard beat him convincingly in the rematch after losing a razor thin decision fighting durans fight....plus Duran got knocked out by hearns , outpointed by Benitez and hagler so no Duran is not a more complete fighter because if he was he would have won vs Benitez and not koed by hearns.
Complete you need to read a dictionary to see what that word means

[Anthony342]

leonard never had a fight for 3 years and only had 1 fight in 5 years and hagler was only 32 and Leonard was 30.....we can all nick pick on most fighters careers but the bottom line is everybody expected leonard to lose really bad and get knocked out as hagler was a 3-1 on favourite to beat him.
He also psyched out hagler who tried to box with him instead of just coming out trying to take his head off and that had more to do with with tactics not prime.
Leonard never waited for hagler to get old...leonard was never afraid of a risk because he always took on the best it was more that he missed boxing and knew he had to fight hagler or that fight would never happen.
You honestly think leonard sat there waiting for hagler to get old....no it was his ego and desire to beat hagler that made him come back against hagler when the whole world was against him returning.
As what Duran said to leonard when he lost a decision to hagler he lent over the ropes and said to him you can beat him sugar.

Yes, yes I do and Leonard admitted this himself. He attended Hagler's previous fight with Mugabi, saw that he had aged enough for him to not be a threat and said that he could now beat him. Leonard could have easily kept on fighting when he made his comeback in 1984 after the Kevin Howard fight, but retired again simply because he suffered a knockdown in a fight he went on to win. Doesn't matter that Hagler was only 2 years older, he was done by then, past prime and already contemplating retirement. You wanna talk about ego, it was Leonard's ego that wouldn't allow him to fight Hagler sooner when he would've been more of a threat, because he didn't want to risk losing that fight and it still ended up being close. He also pulled some tactics with the second Duran fight, calling for an immediate rematch, knowing about Duran's trouble in between fights making weight. Then they fought a pretty unspectacular rubber match 9 years later. Still a good win, Hagler. Rest of Leonard's resume before that is more solid and better.

Also if Leonard wanted to take on Hagler so bad, what was the deal with that whole charade of him in a tuxedo in the middle of a boxing ring making people think he would announce a fight with Hagler only to announce another retirement, like they showed on Legendary Nights? If you want it that badly, you make it happen.

[The plunger man]

Yes, yes I do and Leonard admitted this himself. He attended Hagler's previous fight with Mugabi, saw that he had aged enough for him to not be a threat and said that he could now beat him. Leonard could have easily kept on fighting when he made his comeback in 1984 after the Kevin Howard fight, but retired again simply because he suffered a knockdown in a fight he went on to win. Doesn't matter that Hagler was only 2 years older, he was done by then, past prime and already contemplating retirement. You wanna talk about ego, it was Leonard's ego that wouldn't allow him to fight Hagler sooner when he would've been more of a threat, because he didn't want to risk losing that fight and it still ended up being close. He also pulled some tactics with the second Duran fight, calling for an immediate rematch, knowing about Duran's trouble in between fights making weight. Then they fought a pretty unspectacular rubber match 9 years later. Still a good win, Hagler. Rest of Leonard's resume before that is more solid and better.

Also if Leonard wanted to take on Hagler so bad, what was the deal with that whole charade of him in a tuxedo in the middle of a boxing ring making people think he would announce a fight with Hagler only to announce another retirement, like they showed on Legendary Nights? If you want it that badly, you make it happen.

look we can alll make excuses why hagler lost to leonard.....if leonard never suffered a detached retina in 1982 the fight would have happened full stop...leonard was never worried about hagler and his resume was packed with fighters who brought terror to opponents...Duran , hearns ettc ...leonard always boxed the best, as Duran he signed an immediate rematch to face leonard and that’s his problem if he cannot maintain disclipine...he’s a paid proffesional and world champion....you cannot just go away party non stop and not face his duties....did leonard use that to his advantage yeah he probably did but boxing is a tactical sport along with physical and if you don’t know that you shouldn’t be talking about world class boxing.
Leonard suffered a detached retina and at that time was a career ending injury and surgery was not really known success rate so for you to talk about he should have continued you sir are clueless....when you have made millions , yiu have a wife , your family are pressuring you to hang the gloves up and risk going blind if the eye fails what are you going to do...and that’s why leonard retired and it’s also the reason why we know now that leonard hit the bottle , took ******* and became an alcoholic to try and numb the feeling of being out the ring.....1984 he looked medicocre and got knocked down and retired again because he knew he needed to be better.
Hagler spent years trying to coax smaller fighters up to meet him and did it with Duran , hearns , mugabi and he thought he would do the same to leonard.
****ing 5 years leonard had 1 fight and that’s all and hagler was active , 2 years before had his best moment in knocking out hearns.....hagler thought he would destroy leonard and he came unstuck and Leonard was naturally smaller by 2 weight divisions and still came back and beat a bigger more active fighter....I remember reading a quote by Marcos Geraldo when they asked him who he thought would win and he said Leonard and he said he was more refined , had more skill and a better boxer.
Leonard outboxed hagler and he would have beat him 1982...he had that extra bit that always makes a fighter pull through in the end.
Hagler drawing with antuerfermo , getting outboxed by willie monroe , drawing with sugar ray searles , loosing to boogaloo watts and scraping past a fighter that was naturally a lightweight in Duran who then said to leonard you will beat him.
So yes leonard was a real complete fighter and he proved it

[Rusty Tromboni]

Leonard beat him convincingly in the rematch after losing a razor thin decision fighting durans fight...

Yup. You've clearly never seen those fights.

Points though for audacity. It takes a real set of stones to soak with such authority on a topic you know nothing about.

[Rusty Tromboni]

plus Duran got knocked out by hearns , outpointed by Benitez and hagler so no Duran is not a more complete fighter because if he was he would have won vs Benitez and not koed by hearns.
Complete you need to read a dictionary to see what that word means

The thread is about most COMPLETE, nnot CONSISTENT. And i'm the one who needs a dictionary!? If irony killed, you'd be Asad's chemical weapon supply.

Duran lost those fights at the dinner table, not for lack of skill.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Yes, yes I do and Leonard admitted this himself. He attended Hagler's previous fight with Mugabi, saw that he had aged enough for him to not be a threat and said that he could now beat him. Leonard could have easily kept on fighting when he made his comeback in 1984 after the Kevin Howard fight, but retired again simply because he suffered a knockdown in a fight he went on to win. Doesn't matter that Hagler was only 2 years older, he was done by then, past prime and already contemplating retirement. You wanna talk about ego, it was Leonard's ego that wouldn't allow him to fight Hagler sooner when he would've been more of a threat, because he didn't want to risk losing that fight and it still ended up being close. He also pulled some tactics with the second Duran fight, calling for an immediate rematch, knowing about Duran's trouble in between fights making weight. Then they fought a pretty unspectacular rubber match 9 years later. Still a good win, Hagler. Rest of Leonard's resume before that is more solid and better.

Also if Leonard wanted to take on Hagler so bad, what was the deal with that whole charade of him in a tuxedo in the middle of a boxing ring making people think he would announce a fight with Hagler only to announce another retirement, like they showed on Legendary Nights? If you want it that badly, you make it happen.

Yup.


Leonard gave his best against Duran in both fights and still came up short. If Duran showed up for the rematch even in the state he was in against Moore - a far cry from his caliber in Montreal and against Palomono - he would've won the rematch, too. Leonard was never going to beat a fit Duran - Duran was too complete.

[The plunger man]

The thread is about most COMPLETE, nnot CONSISTENT. And i'm the one who needs a dictionary!? If irony killed, you'd be Asad's chemical weapon supply.

Duran lost those fights at the dinner table, not for lack of skill.

complete means complete , that includes discipline.
Complete means complete that includes being able to beat boxers , punchers , inside fighters , defensive fighters.
Duran lost to punchers in getting knocked out by hearns.
Duran lost to defensive fighters in Wilfred Benitez
Duran lost to boxers in sugar ray leonard
Duran lost to switch hitters and box fighters in Marvin hagler.

Leonard beat punchers in Tommy hearns
Leonard beat defensive fighters in Wilfred Benitez
Leonard beat inside masters in Roberto Duran
Leonard beat switch hitters and box fighters in Marvin hagler.

That’s what we call complete dimwit.....you’ve already lost the past conversation with Lennox Lewis and now once again I’ve taken your pants down and spanked your fat lazy ass..
You talk about the dinner table that also comes under the banner of complete (dedicated , committed , focused ). now don’t write to me again clueless

[The plunger man]

Yup. You've clearly never seen those fights.

Points though for audacity. It takes a real set of stones to soak with such authority on a topic you know nothing about.

what is more convincing that seeing your opponent quit and turn his back...as for the 1st fight leonard lost by 2 rounds on 2 cards and 1 on the other so in my book that is a razor thin decision and the Italian judge actually scored it a draw.
Now shut up clueless