The Most Complete Boxer Ever

[billeau2]

Well, for starters, unlike Karate, in Boxing we use our hands. You clench a fist by collecting your fingers together andfolding your thumbs OVER them -- never wrapped inside the fingers. Because Boxing makes exclusive use of hands for striking, they're wrapped, taped, and covered in thick padded gloves.

We call striking with the fists PUNCHING.

(You win fights by being the better Boxer, so effective punching matters. You can't just pay your Sensei to give you a new belt, and tell you and your mom how proud you have made him.)

Now not all punches are created equal. In fact, punching isn't really the basis of Boxing, footwork is. That originates with a Boxers stance. Dependent on that stance and the footwork used for managing position in the ring, different punches have different value. Some will arrive faster, some will arrive harder. All will come from different angles.

The lead hand, when throwing a straight punch is a jab.

Golota's jab was quick, well-timed, varied and hard. He had a great sense of distance. He could disrupt his opponent's timing. He didn't over-commit to it, and always stayed on balance. While the punch carried a lot of mustard, he didn't mistake it for a power-punch like a bum like SOnny Liston would. Hitting hard with a jab is important, but not necessary. It's off the jab that everything else comes. Keeping an opponent off-balance and disrupting his offense is also a consequence of a good jab. So trying to make it a power punch can actually have deleterious results.

Golota began to dictate fights off his jab, the distance, tempo and ability to land follow up combinations of his own, or defuse his opponent's offense. Usually he worked to put his opponent on the back foot, and attack on the inside.

This can all be seen if you watch the fight with Rid**** Bowe. Bowe was also known for an exceptional jab. But Golota handedly beat him in a battle of the jabs.

I know you don't watch Boxing, but if ever you decide to take up the hobby, this is one of the first fights you should see.



Again, your ignorance of Boxing on display. Since you have mentioned SOnny Liston before, I can understand why you think Coetzee is an ATG. Compared to Liston, he is a great fighter. He didn't sturggle with Light Heavyweights. He could actually beat very good fighters.

Coetzee was very unrefined, however. He absolutely had the potential to be an ATG, but he was overly reliant on his right hand. Supplementary offense, and set-ups were absent from his skillset. He lacked all defense. Most damming of all, while a big powerful dude who could really pour on the offense, he was flabby and poorly conditioned.

Afrikaaners might be the most genetically blessed people in the whole world. But by the 1970s, simply being a huge athletic guy with a great punch and a great chin was insufficient for being champion. Conversely, we saw lots of champions of West African descent who are probably the least ideal choice for combat rise to the top, and most dominate, until the collapse of Communism. Training and fitness matter.

Against a cowardly fa'ggot like Liston who built his short and mostly insignificant career against undersized and unskilled opponents, yeah, Coetzee looks like an ATG. But if you actually watch his career, you'll see that for all his success, his over-reliance on a solid jaw and killer punch caused him to come up short.

First off: You do not know squat about boxing and now you are going to talk about Karate? I would say stay in your lane, but at this point? you are a trailer teetering about to wipe out.

Karate makes use of many hand strikes you dolt lol. Including different punches. Power is generated different... There are different hand positions for punches as well... Oy vay, do you ever tire of being wrong?

I guess to a moron every last karate teacher is bad and every last boxer is good right Rusty? And actually in boxing the punches do not vary by angle so much... The farther one goes back, and the more boxing was combat related, the straighter the punches... Even a hook properly thrown is at two lines, a 90 degree angle. The footwork creates the angles.

The lead hand when thrown is NOT a jab moron... It is a jab when the hand is pronated, like in karate? Reason being: The original lead was based on body alignment, targeting to the chin point, and the speed was only a piston movement to bring it to target where the effect was like being hit with a hammer.

As gloves got bigger, more force, more speed was needed so the hand was pronated, the jab was thrown with speed to create more power. pronation creates a whipping effect emphasizing speed, as opposed to the traditional lead which emphasized weight, targeting and a very short piston movement straight to the target. Johnson used both, Kid McCoy circa the late 1800's was knocking teeth out with his corkscrew punch, which used pronation. british trainers talk about McCoy rattling their teeth with his corkscrew blow.

Golota does/did have a good jab... Just nothing near the class of someone like Liston. And Bowe, was inconsistent with his jab...he often pawed with the jab.

I think Coetze is an all time great? No Rusty... You are the moron comparing a journey man to great fighters not me, its in the threads so lie away moron....

Afrikaners, genetics... Your a damn racist. Afrikaners are tough, like a lot of individuals, and have produced some decent fighters, not ATG's. Sanders was IMO a better prodigy than Coetze, had a better punch, better technical skills but did not train regularly.

You don't have to impress how ignorant you are with the comments about Liston, we get you are a racist idiot who spews hate when confronted with your ******ity and ignorance... Your even trying to claim my views are yours on Coetze lol.

So once again, you lose big... you show a total lack of understanding about things you talk about like you are an expert. People will continue to implore you to study up... and it is advice you should take. You do not even know the difference between a lead and a jab, not suprising... Now go yell at the Black kids playing in the cul de sac...

[NChristo-]

Duran would probably be my number 1.

Jose Napoles is up there, his only real weakness was having paper thin skin probably caused by his alcoholism. Great offence, great defence, outstanding footwork and he blended it all together beautifully.

Eder Jofre.

Carlos Monzon.

Michael Spinks is up there.

Benny Leonard.

Donald Curry is ripped straight out of a boxing textbook, shame about his chin.

Both Sugar Rays have probably been mentioned. Rightfully so, obviously.

[Rusty Tromboni]

First off: You do not know squat about boxing and now you are going to talk about Karate? I would say stay in your lane, but at this point? you are a trailer teetering about to wipe out.

Karate makes use of many hand strikes you dolt lol. Including different punches. Power is generated different... There are different hand positions for punches as well... Oy vay, do you ever tire of being wrong?

I guess to a moron every last karate teacher is bad and every last boxer is good right Rusty? And actually in boxing the punches do not vary by angle so much... The farther one goes back, and the more boxing was combat related, the straighter the punches... Even a hook properly thrown is at two lines, a 90 degree angle. The footwork creates the angles.

The lead hand when thrown is NOT a jab moron... It is a jab when the hand is pronated, like in karate? Reason being: The original lead was based on body alignment, targeting to the chin point, and the speed was only a piston movement to bring it to target where the effect was like being hit with a hammer.

As gloves got bigger, more force, more speed was needed so the hand was pronated, the jab was thrown with speed to create more power. pronation creates a whipping effect emphasizing speed, as opposed to the traditional lead which emphasized weight, targeting and a very short piston movement straight to the target. Johnson used both, Kid McCoy circa the late 1800's was knocking teeth out with his corkscrew punch, which used pronation. british trainers talk about McCoy rattling their teeth with his corkscrew blow.

Golota does/did have a good jab... Just nothing near the class of someone like Liston. And Bowe, was inconsistent with his jab...he often pawed with the jab.

I think Coetze is an all time great? No Rusty... You are the moron comparing a journey man to great fighters not me, its in the threads so lie away moron....

Afrikaners, genetics... Your a damn racist. Afrikaners are tough, like a lot of individuals, and have produced some decent fighters, not ATG's. Sanders was IMO a better prodigy than Coetze, had a better punch, better technical skills but did not train regularly.

You don't have to impress how ignorant you are with the comments about Liston, we get you are a racist idiot who spews hate when confronted with your ******ity and ignorance... Your even trying to claim my views are yours on Coetze lol.

So once again, you lose big... you show a total lack of understanding about things you talk about like you are an expert. People will continue to implore you to study up... and it is advice you should take. You do not even know the difference between a lead and a jab, not suprising... Now go yell at the Black kids playing in the cul de sac...

I wonder why he writes these endless rants when he knows full well no one will read them.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Duran would probably be my number 1.

Jose Napoles is up there, his only real weakness was having paper thin skin probably caused by his alcoholism. Great offence, great defence, outstanding footwork and he blended it all together beautifully.

Eder Jofre.

Carlos Monzon.

Michael Spinks is up there.

Benny Leonard.

Donald Curry is ripped straight out of a boxing textbook, shame about his chin.

Both Sugar Rays have probably been mentioned. Rightfully so, obviously.

Napoles was an extraordinary fighter. One of the absolute finest.

I struggle to call him a complete fighter, however, because he was mostly confined to fighting offensively. He could use his legs, he was actually very good defensively/not getting hit clean. But I can't really think of occasions where he got on his bike, or resorted to out-fighting, or used lateral movement and the breadth of the ring to control or dictate a fight. Usually he didn't need to, but it results his exclusion from being listed as the most complete.

Walker and Canzoneri were similarly fighters with a lot of depth, but whose prime focus was on offense. There are fights where all three, if they had the remains, resorting to Boxing would have been advisable but they just couldn't switch gears.

Same is true of Robinson. Watching the Maxim and Basilio fights, it's clear he just doesn't have a contingency plan and dies by his own sword.

[billeau2]

I wonder why he writes these endless rants when he knows full well no one will read them.

To put a record on these threads of how you are owned... So far you have in typical fashion attacked the person, not the information and now you are jumping to the ostrich head in the sand technique... wa wa wa I won't read your post its too long

Im almost done with you Rusty... Take heart.

[Rusty Tromboni]

To put a record on these threads of how you are owned... So far you have in typical fashion attacked the person, not the information and now you are jumping to the ostrich head in the sand technique... wa wa wa I won't read your post its too long

Im almost done with you Rusty... Take heart.

I'm sorry I haven't been the father you hoped me to be.

[billeau2]

I'm sorry I haven't been the father you hoped me to be.

Just read up on the subject at hand... no Freudian prison talk required...

[Rusty Tromboni]

Just read up on the subject at hand... no Freudian prison talk required...

Like mistaking Sanders and Coetzee for contemporaries?

[billeau2]

Like mistaking Sanders and Coetzee for contemporaries?

Did you do that? Dumb a ss. Me? I implied they are two South African fighters and that I thought Sanders was better...

Hey the phones need ringing lunch time is over.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Did you do that? Dumb a ss. Me? I implied they are two South African fighters and that I thought Sanders was better...

Hey the phones need ringing lunch time is over.

So you admit you can't stay on topic and like to deflect when the pressure is on.

The Clintons are coming...