Fact: Jack Johnson Agreed to fight Joe Jeanette for Championship Title

[edgarg]

Ah. I think this should be updated since one of our resident scholars (aka ) was claiming that exhibition/no-decision fights in NY were necessarily non-title fights.





Welp...with what I just found in the previous thread I made, turns out that this is definitively proven false, and now no one can doubt that Jack Johnson offered Joe Jeannette a chance at the title.

Not only did Benny Leonard win the title in a no-decision/exhibition fight in New York....

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....but the Kilbane/Dundee fight in New York was also for the title according to Kilbane himself.

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I almost forgot why I had begun looking into Johnny Kilbane. What's interesting about the Kilbane/Dundee fight is that it was supposed to be one of the championship bouts to take place on the same card as the Johnson/Jeannette championship fight.

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It went on as planned...at the same venue, on the day that Johnson/Jeannette was to take place.



There can be no doubt anymore that Johnson agreed to fight Jeannette for the championship.

He BROKE his arm in rd 3. He also was totally unfit, and just doing it for the money. He was broke. The Title was the only thing of value that he could exploit. The hate drove him to desperate levels to raise cash. He was never afraid of any fighter. All this crap about Langford and McVey was just that...crap. When he fought McVey he himself had 12 wins and about 4-5 losses, so he was still att a very undeveloped stage. And in his first few fights he also fought some top, experienced champions, and was beaten also..

They needed the money, and didn't cherry-pick, they were glad to get any fights even against Goliath.

All the crap is later apocryphal rubbish. Urban legend, etc.

When he fought Langford, Langford was already a seasoned veteran; age 20, had already between 50-60 fights, Johnson could have killed him, he toyed with him , KD several times, chatted with ringsiders, held Langford up a few times to prevent him from going down. Needed the unequal fight to go the distance, because of spectators demands for "value".(Nearly all white, they had the money).

[Ivich]

He BROKE his arm in rd 3. He also was totally unfit, and just doing it for the money. He was broke. The Title was the only thing of value that he could exploit. The hate drove him to desperate levels to raise cash. He was never afraid of any fighter. All this crap about Langford and McVey was just that...crap. When he fought McVey he himself had 12 wins and about 4-5 losses, so he was still att a very undeveloped stage. And in his first few fights he also fought some top, experienced champions, and was beaten also..

They needed the money, and didn't cherry-pick, they were glad to get any fights even against Goliath.

All the crap is later apocryphal rubbish. Urban legend, etc.

When he fought Langford, Langford was already a seasoned veteran; age 20, had already between 50-60 fights, Johnson could have killed him, he toyed with him , KD several times, chatted with ringsiders, held Langford up a few times to prevent him from going down. Needed the unequal fight to go the distance, because of spectators demands for "value".(Nearly all white, they had the money).

www.nytimes.com › 1923/08/12 › archivesMullins Refuses to Allow Wills to Box Jack Johnson


manager won't allow him to box Jack Johnson. Full text is unavailable for this digitized archive



www.nytimes.com › 1912/10/13 › archivesJACK JOHNSON SIGNS.; Negro to Get $50,000 for Bouts with ...


CHICAGO, Oct. 12. -- Jack Johnson tonight announced that he had accepted the offer of $50,000 to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVey in Australia, made by Hugh D. McIntosh. He will leave Chic

1. San Francisco Call
2. 30 December 1911

San Francisco Call, Volume 111, Number 30, 30 December 1911



San Francisco Call 30 December 1911 — California Digital Newspaper Collection (ucr.edu)
Johnson agrees to fight McVey fro $30,000 in Australia.

[Willie Pep 229]

www.nytimes.com › 1923/08/12 › archivesMullins Refuses to Allow Wills to Box Jack Johnson


manager won't allow him to box Jack Johnson. Full text is unavailable for this digitized archive



www.nytimes.com › 1912/10/13 › archivesJACK JOHNSON SIGNS.; Negro to Get $50,000 for Bouts with ...


CHICAGO, Oct. 12. -- Jack Johnson tonight announced that he had accepted the offer of $50,000 to fight Sam Langford and Sam McVey in Australia, made by Hugh D. McIntosh. He will leave Chic

1. San Francisco Call
2. 30 December 1911

San Francisco Call, Volume 111, Number 30, 30 December 1911



San Francisco Call 30 December 1911 — California Digital Newspaper Collection (ucr.edu)
Johnson agrees to fight McVey fro $30,000 in Australia.

The San Francisco Call

So I guess we can conclude that this fight doesn't happen because some American promoter was able to lure JJ into the Flynn fight with a promise of 30K.

OK so who the hell is Jack Curley?

He promoted two Johnson fights, Flynn in 1912 and Willard in 1915.

He must have had some kind of a relationship with Johnson. Those are the only two fights he promoted. With any fighters.

[Ivich]

The San Francisco Call

So I guess we can conclude that this fight doesn't happen because some American promoter was able to lure JJ into the Flynn fight with a promise of 30K.

OK so who the hell is Jack Curley?

He promoted two Johnson fights, Flynn in 1912 and Willard in 1915.

He must have had some kind of a relationship with Johnson. Those are the only two fights he promoted. With any fighters.

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Curley
Johnson got $31,500 for beating up Flynn in the US.
Should he have instead taken a fight in Australia against the more dangerous McVey and paid his own expenses for a purse of $30,000 ?
What would you have done?

[Willie Pep 229]

ttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Curley
Johnson got $31,500 for beating up Flynn in the US.
Should he have instead taken a fight in Australia against the more dangerous McVey and paid his own expenses for a purse of $30,000 ?
What would you have done?

He has says in the interview 'unless an American promoter can' . . . - he then refers to 'going the distance' i.e. going to Australia.

It s pretty clear from the interview he preferred to fights on the States - so he made the right decision.

That is until they came after him with the Mann Act.

Certainly it is 20-20 hindsight on my part but if he had taken the Langford/McVea deal he would have been up 50K and out the country.

But again, he couldn't have seen that coming and the Flynn fight looked like the right deal at the time.

[Mysterian]

I missed trav's posts while I was away.

-Marchegiano