Who was more overrated; Mayweather, Jack Johnson or Ali?

[Rusty Tromboni]

All these people picking Mayweather, I have to ask, when did he ever let anyone as bad as Shavers, Norton, Young, Spinks, hear the final round!?

Does Mayweather walk around like a jittering vibrator?

Johnson got KTFO by Choynski and Willard, and nearly KTFO by Ketchel. Again, how do those guys see 12 rounds against Mayweather?


I am the first to say Mayweather's record is abysmal. But at least he was consistent and demonstrated a high level of skill. The other two weren't particularly skilled, even by the measure of their era.

Johnson was a contemporary of McFarland. Ali a contemporary of Jofre, Canto, Monzon.... Mayweather was P4P top 3 for the entirety of his career. Most, though not all, would say he was the CLEAR #1. Some would even argue (and I am not talking about his groupies) he was the best fighter since Sugar Ray Leonard. Some would say that after Duran he's the best fighter to ever touch down at 135 pounds.

Again, calling him "TBE" is crazy ******. Stuff like that has me immediately donating to planned parenthood. But Johnson and Ali could never claim what Mayweather could, and their window of supposed greatness was much shorter, despite their being HEAVYWEIGHTS, while Floyd, traditionally speaking, was just a Welterweight.

[HOUDINI563]

Choynski koed a Young Johnson. Choynski was picked by Jeffries as one of boxing’s hardest punchers.

Willard koed an old Johnson in the 26th round. Had it been scheduled for 25 rounds it was Johnson’s fight. Instead it was a 45 rounds...for a reason.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Choynski koed a Young Johnson. Choynski was picked by Jeffries as one of boxing’s hardest punchers.

Willard koed an old Johnson in the 26th round. Had it been scheduled for 25 rounds it was Johnson’s fight. Instead it was a 45 rounds...for a reason.

LOL, clearly you've never Boxed. In fact, I can tell you were the kid who was always picked last when making teams.

If the fight were scheduled for less rounds, WIllard would have fought differently. That's a part of strategy. Watch the footage: he's toying with Johnson. Make the fight shorter and Willard simply steps it up sooner, putting Johnson out of his misery.

[HOUDINI563]

At no time is Willard toying with Johnson. Willard had a clear strategy that he followed perfectly. Only when Johnson tired did Willard start winning rounds. At the end of 25 rounds Johnson was way ahead. The bout was scheduled for 45 rounds in order to give Willard the best chance of winning. Willard was a low skilled fighter who could only win via attrition. Boxing 101.

[GhostofDempsey]

No. Johnson agreed to fight Langford several times only to see the bout fall through. Predominantly the public was not interested in seeing Johnson fight another black. The excitement that drew the largest crowd was the potential of witnessing a white man defeat Johnson. Johnson was interested in getting his typical purse. Fighting another black he was generally offered much less.

Johnson was head and shoulders better than Langford, Jeanette and McVey.

Wrong, Johnson fought the three of them when they were still green. He also had distinct size advantages. Jeannette got closer to beating him in their last fight. He gained experience and figured out how to fight Johnson. Johnson had already reneged on his contract with Langford and never made an honest attempt at giving them their shot. There is no revising history here.

[HOUDINI563]

Whereas it was true Johnson fought other blacks pre title (totally expected as the white contenders/champions avoided them), it is untrue to say Johnson ducked them once he had the title. All Johnson asked for was his typical asking price (purse). He was offered $6000 to fight Langford by one promoter which was chicken feed. Several others offered his asking price but each fell through. In the end it’s a business. Crowds clamored to see Johnson fight a white challenger and he could make a huge paycheck. They were much less excited with a black vs black title fight.

[HOUDINI563]

Johnson was getting more money for beating up white hopes than he could get taking on Langford who was a more dangerous proposition.

White promoters scoured the country for white challengers they weren't interested in pitting two blacks for the title as they, Cofforth, Curley and Rickard, said they would not draw.

If Johnson had faced Langford in the same shape he was in for most of his challengers he would have stood a chance of being defeated, if he was in shape he beats Langford. Johnson didn't duck him per se, he signed to fight him twice, once in the UK before he became champ but he reneged on the contract once he had the title asking for more money as he was only offered $3000 and he was now champion.

Johnson also verbally agreed to fight Langford in the US with a proviso that Langford produced a cash binder, Langford and his management failed to come up with the money and the match fell through.

Hugh McIntosh offered Johnson a two fight deal in Australia against Langford and McVey. Johnson at first refused as the $$$ wasn't good enough. McIntosh upped his offer and Johnson accepted. This was around the time of the Mann Act fiasco mind you.

Johnson jumped bail and became a fugitive from "justice". McIntosh then withdrew his offer.

So while Johnson preferred the easy defences against white challengers that the White public wanted to see ,he didn't rule out fighting Langford or anyone else if his price of $30,000 was met.

So you can't say he ducked Langford.
You can say the White US public did.
For what its worth the foremost expert on Sam Langford, Clay Moyle, whose biography on him was beyond excellent picks Johnson to to beat Langford as did Fleischer.

[GhostofDempsey]

Johnson was getting more money for beating up white hopes than he could get taking on Langford who was a more dangerous proposition.

White promoters scoured the country for white challengers they weren't interested in pitting two blacks for the title as they, Cofforth, Curley and Rickard, said they would not draw.

If Johnson had faced Langford in the same shape he was in for most of his challengers he would have stood a chance of being defeated, if he was in shape he beats Langford. Johnson didn't duck him per se, he signed to fight him twice, once in the UK before he became champ but he reneged on the contract once he had the title asking for more money as he was only offered $3000 and he was now champion.

Johnson also verbally agreed to fight Langford in the US with a proviso that Langford produced a cash binder, Langford and his management failed to come up with the money and the match fell through.

Hugh McIntosh offered Johnson a two fight deal in Australia against Langford and McVey. Johnson at first refused as the $$$ wasn't good enough. McIntosh upped his offer and Johnson accepted. This was around the time of the Mann Act fiasco mind you.

Johnson jumped bail and became a fugitive from "justice". McIntosh then withdrew his offer.

So while Johnson preferred the easy defences against white challengers that the White public wanted to see ,he didn't rule out fighting Langford or anyone else if his price of $30,000 was met.

So you can't say he ducked Langford.
You can say the White US public did.
For what its worth the foremost expert on Sam Langford, Clay Moyle, whose biography on him was beyond excellent picks Johnson to to beat Langford as did Fleischer.

I know the history of this, and again, Johnson made no real effort to fight any of them. He himself admitted that he drew the color line. It came right from his mouth. Langford, Jeannette, and McVea all said in interviews they were never given their shot. There is nothing to argue here, unless you think all four of them, to include Johnson, were lying.

[HOUDINI563]

The devil is in the details. It’s not as simple as saying one fighter ducked another. It boiled down to money. There were huge paychecks fighting white challengers. Much smaller checks to fight blacks. Why fight a black challenger?

[GhostofDempsey]

The devil is in the details. It’s not as simple as saying one fighter ducked another. It boiled down to money. There were huge paychecks fighting white challengers. Much smaller checks to fight blacks. Why fight a black challenger?

He could have made money against any one of them. He chose less money against a lesser black fighter in Jim Johnson.