Top 10 AT Welters, same day weigh-ins

[The plunger man]

Duran is a top 10 AT welterweight, because if you beat a prime Leonard in that weight division you are a great of that weight division. Period. Even the Hearns loss at welter was a bit of a fluke. Duran was too casually prepared. In a fair percentage of parallel universes I believe he beats Hearns, as Tommy's chin is just vulnerable enough to be put in danger by the miniature man. In the one in which we reside he got knocked cold pronto. I do not believe that result is representative of a thousand fights between the two. Hearns will win in more universes, but he will not win in all of them.

if was for the 154lb light middleweight title when hearns knocked Duran out which in a way gave an even bigger advantage for Hearns due to his much bigger frame and able to carry more weight.
I would not bet my house on hearns beating the Duran we saw in Montreal with Leonard....he was tenacious that night but hearns would still win most head to heads due to his natural advantages

[The plunger man]

Joey Maxim fight... SRR lost to HEAT, at the time he was winning all 3 judges scored 10-3, 9-3-1 and 7-3-3

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/J...r_Ray_Robinson

I think SRR did enough in welter.. He didn't lose in Welterweight division
Mickey walker lost to Pete Latzo in Welterweight Title bout
I just a bit wonder..

he got stopped and both fighters had the same things to deal with ....plus maxim if you actually read his post interview he knew he was gradually breaking him down.....a stoppage is a stoppage and Robinson could not continue and should not get a pass for it just because it’s SRR

[The Old LefHook]

Robinson believed in bugaboos and dreams. But his mindset in its entirety is mostly speculation. If opponents had only known the way to fight Robby was with rumors of spells and witchcraft they might have activated his jinx.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Same day weigh-ins. Watch out, some of you big boys may not be able to make weight effectively anymore.


1 Walker
2 Robinson
3 Leonard
4 Hearns
5 Duran
6 Wilfred Benitez

7 Emile Griffith
8 Carmen Basilio
9 Ted Kid Lewis
10 Jose Napoles

Yeah, you're ******ed. But i'm proud of you for not making a thread about Marciano.


Were Leonard and Hearns from the same-day era? They're easily the same size as Joey Archer.

Definitely different than the days when fighters weighed in ring-side. Which is as big a difference as between day-of and day-before.

Anyway,

Robinson
Walker
Leonard
Britton
Graham
Napoles
Griffith
Hearns
Lewis
Rodriguez

That's a rough-cut list. Obviously fighters can be shuffled around.

Hearns tends to get greatly overrated at Ww. Graham is one of the most criminally underrated fighters in history - after McFarland, he is the greatest fighter to never win a championship. And he's a clear indicator of how people make these lists without having ever seen the fighters they're discussing, or even researched their careers.

[Rusty Tromboni]

if was for the 154lb light middleweight title when hearns knocked Duran out which in a way gave an even bigger advantage for Hearns due to his much bigger frame and able to carry more weight.
I would not bet my house on hearns beating the Duran we saw in Montreal with Leonard....he was tenacious that night but hearns would still win most head to heads due to his natural advantages

Duran couldn't handle that jab. Not at any point. And Hearns wasn't as easy to chew up on the inside as many fans seem to suggest.

Really, hearns was lethal at short distance. His left to the body and hatchet right hand. That's always gonna make it rough on Duran in a way guys like Palomino, Leonard. DE Jesus and Moore couldn't do.

I dont dispute that tommy fought subpar versions of Duran and Benitez. I don't dispute that his greatest feat at 147 was LOSING to SRL - he really didn't do anything else legendary during his short tenure at the weight. But he's always a bad fight for Duran.

[Willie Pep 229]

Duran couldn't handle that jab. Not at any point. And Hearns wasn't as easy to chew up on the inside as many fans seem to suggest.

Really, hearns was lethal at short distance. His left to the body and hatchet right hand. That's always gonna make it rough on Duran in a way guys like Palomino, Leonard. DE Jesus and Moore couldn't do.

I dont dispute that tommy fought subpar versions of Duran and Benitez. I don't dispute that his greatest feat at 147 was LOSING to SRL - he really didn't do anything else legendary during his short tenure at the weight. But he's always a bad fight for Duran.

Take away the late Uriah Grant loss and there is a paradoxical way to show Hearn's greatness, just mention his loses: a nemesis in Iran Barkley (2) ; Marvin Hagler (1); Sugar Ray Leonard (1), and that's all. Not a bad 70 fight career.

[The plunger man]

Duran couldn't handle that jab. Not at any point. And Hearns wasn't as easy to chew up on the inside as many fans seem to suggest.

Really, hearns was lethal at short distance. His left to the body and hatchet right hand. That's always gonna make it rough on Duran in a way guys like Palomino, Leonard. DE Jesus and Moore couldn't do.

I dont dispute that tommy fought subpar versions of Duran and Benitez. I don't dispute that his greatest feat at 147 was LOSING to SRL - he really didn't do anything else legendary during his short tenure at the weight. But he's always a bad fight for Duran.

which is what I said but I also believe Duran gave tommy more room than he should have and I think that comes down to Duran not jumping on him straight away like he did with Leonard in Montreal hall..Duran was a lot quicker in that fight and literally gave leonard no time to adjust although leonard did try to meet him head on.
Hearns was a freak of nature with a reach of 78 inches and 5 inches in height and that was always a huge advantage.
Duran would always struggle with hearns for sure

[Rusty Tromboni]

Take away the late Uriah Grant loss and there is a paradoxical way to show Hearn's greatness, just mention his loses: a nemesis in Iran Barkley (2) ; Marvin Hagler (1); Sugar Ray Leonard (1), and that's all. Not a bad 70 fight career.

Yeah. I actualy rank him over Hagler, and not very far below Leonard.

His chin could let him down, but it wasn't as fragile as many suggest.

I do believe that in generations past his star would've shone less brightly. He'd be more or less confined to Middleweight and matched with opponents who would perform, if not as triumphantly as Hagler, at least as well as Barkley.

[Rusty Tromboni]

which is what I said but I also believe Duran gave tommy more room than he should have and I think that comes down to Duran not jumping on him straight away like he did with Leonard in Montreal hall..Duran was a lot quicker in that fight and literally gave leonard no time to adjust although leonard did try to meet him head on.
Hearns was a freak of nature with a reach of 78 inches and 5 inches in height and that was always a huge advantage.
Duran would always struggle with hearns for sure

Fair enough. He was bloated and flatfooted. But we saw him bloated and flatfooted other times where he won. I think he froze when confronted with that viper jab.

Arcel wasn't with him then. A fighter needs a good corner to prepare him for new challenges and ensure he's staying on track.

So maybe if the fight takes place instead of the rematch with Leonard, we see Duran at his absolute best. But i'm still putting my money on Tommy to win by KO.

[Rusty Tromboni]

There is no "every time," when you have a chin like Tommy's.

Oh yea? Who exactly proved you right?

A case can be made for Gavilan. And there is film of Walker. The former welterweight gave Max Schmelinjg a good tussle before being KO'd by the relative giant. Walker could really take it and he had a great lefhook that was not telegraphed at all. One of the cleanest most technically perfect lefhooks I have ever seen.


Robinson is probably a bit overrated. Whenever people give automatic responses they are not putting much thought in. People automatically award Robinson first place. Some of the mythical matchups would be much better and harder fights than he had in his actual career. He never fought anyone in the least like Hearns, or for that matter anyone like Leonard either. Robinson will have his hands very full in mythical matchups, and would of course be KO'd by Schmeling too. If Maxim can do it, Schmeling can sure as hell do it.

It's moments like this, Mr. Humphries, where you seem lucid and well-informed. I'd like to see more of this.

Gavilan was mobbed up. He won fights even when he was beat. Basillio and Graham wouldn't play ball, so they were robbed.

You forgot, Britton, BTW. Your list is shyte w/o mentioning Britton.

Joey Maxim fight... SRR lost to HEAT, at the time he was winning all 3 judges scored 10-3, 9-3-1 and 7-3-3

https://boxrec.com/media/index.php/J...r_Ray_Robinson

I think SRR did enough in welter.. He didn't lose in Welterweight division
Mickey walker lost to Pete Latzo in Welterweight Title bout
I just a bit wonder..

Robinson fought at Welter even when he was a Middleweight. Walker fought at Middleweight, even when he was a Welter.

Seriously, it shows how ******ed Boxing fans are that they reflexivley elect Robinson the P4P King. While I agree that Walker's tenure was too short at 147 for him to be ranked #1 there, and I concede that even if we did have footage of all his fights, we'd see he wasn't even close to his legendary best, he did enough there to warrant a top slot. It's actually not that deep of a division, and a lot of its best fighters split close decisions with other greats.

Robinson's tenure is so long because he continued to fight in the division, even after he had out-grown it.

And while Walker lost to Pete Latzo, and and OLD Britton, he was doing this all while Leonard and Hearns were cutting their teeth in the amateurs. Walker's win over Mulligan was considered better than Robinson-Turpin. Fanciful serendipity? Perhaps, but it shows Walker really was coming into his own already at Welterweight, and above 147, he was MUCH better than Robinson.

SRR lost to Joey Maxim not the heat. You have to go the distance, the other guy wasn't defeated by the same heat.

Being ahead on the score cards means nothing if you can't go the distance.

Maybe he didn't properly pace himself and the other guy did; or maybe he should have spent more time in the gym?

But he got 'out lasted' and in the end that counts, not an incomplete score card.

Beautifully said. It's so refreshing to have you here.

Watch for Maxim's body shot. It's only then that Ray really seems to feel the heat.