So Dempsey and Jack Johnson are cherry pickers

[Willie Pep 229]

So, I'm having a hard time following. Does all this mean Dempsey and Johnson were or were not cherry pickers. I mean, that WAS the original point of this thread right?

Every fighter has the right to be a 'cherry picker.' -- A fighter's career (when compared) is quite finite and each fight needs to be the best fight for the most money.

Prize fighting has never been an 'organized sport' (thank god) only entrepreneurs offering their fighting prowess as entertainment for a price.

Whether a sanctioning body, State, or fan chooses to call a particular fighter a 'champion' is that body/State/person's decision to make.

Too many boxing fans lose site of this reality often allowing their opinion to be swayed by some organization, (claiming an authority it actually doesn't have,) to make their minds up for them, e.g. television; promoters; casinos; sanctioning bodies; governments.

Most often these organizations, with their own interest, are at odds with what is best for the fighter.

Boxing is the champion of capitalism/entrepreneurial free enterprise; all other sports are tarnished by socialism, i.e. imposed fairness; safety; political correctness, ("fairness" is the justification most often used for the tyranny they seek to impose).

In sport, Prize fighting is the last bastion of rugged individualism; their are those who would turn it into Professional Boxing.

Should we praise or condemn the wily behavior of Sugar Ray Robinson ?

[GhostofDempsey]

You think far too highly of yourself. I post because I have information about these issues that is the truth. You just don't like it, and you don't have to. Your aversion for the truth when it contradicts what you want to believe happened is your problem. You weren't even in the Greb thread when these discussions flared back up, you egomaniac.

Just like in your Johnson thread, I see you claimed I was going to run off and make threads about you. Where they at, doe?

Get over yourself.


Talking to me about Jaded is irrelevant. The mod that had me banned twice and both bans overturned. Hmmm. I wonder why.

Pandas exact quote was something like he appreciates me trying to get trolls thrown off of the site, but no one was going to adhere to the agreed to punishments. That never bothered me, just like it didn't bother me that Deez didn't accept the permanent ban when he lost. He got what he deserved and that was good enough for me seeing as how he had to run away from the site for a month or more to deal with the embarrassment. Probably what you should do.



Keep lying to yourself. I haven't ignored anything you've posted. I've posted information that contradicts what you've posted. That is a difference. What YOU do is ignore what I post (nothing coming back to directly contradict my information. NOTHING).

For example, which one of your historians have addressed the scrapped Jack Johnson/Joe Jeannette 1912 bout? Any one of them????? Any source from ANYWHERE saying the proposed bout would NOT be for the title? ANYTHING???? I didn't think so. Yet on the other side, plenty of information saying it was for the title. You do the math!

What you do is tell me the information I have is lies by making up conspiracy theories that don't make any damn sense. That's embarrassing. What you do is tell me the sources I have are worthless, and then post newspaper articles that you won't even give a source for and which are contradicted by articles I've actually posted from immediately before and after your unsourced article's supposed date, but it's all gravy to you because it fits your agenda That's what's embarrassing. The nerve of you to talk about the credibility of what I post when you to this day have refused to reveal where you got that newspaper article from, refuse to post a link to it, refuse to post the article directly, and stated you found it in a thread here where a simple search proves it doesn't exist

YOU were the one who put ME on ignore to stop the bleeding, buddy. I have a right to post whatever I want, when I want, and as long as you are telling lies around these parts I'll be around to set the record straight. If you don't like it, go cry somewhere else, GhostofForgery.

By the way, I didn't forget about this either.







Hmm. Now I find it very odd that this is the first time I've heard of any accusation against me for photoshopping a document that I've presented here as proof of anything.

You want to attack my character, that's all good. But why so secretive? I've already asked you to post up what I supposedly sent you that was photoshopped, and just like when I asked you about the source of your newspaper article, NOTHING was forthcoming from you.


So Mr. Moral Code GhostofForgery, where is this document that I supposedly photoshopped? Wouldn't you have wanted to post it up for everyone to see so they know which of us is unreliable?

Let's see it! If you don't produce anything or if you get proven wrong, an apology should be forthcoming, though I won't hold my breath.

POST IT UP AND LET'S SEE WHICH OF US IS SO DISHONEST AS TO SPREAD LIES HERE. YOU'RE MAKING A STRONG ACCUSATION AND SEEMINGLY AFRAID TO SHOW PROOF. LETS SEE IT!


WE CAN GET RIGHT TO THE BOTTOM OF WHO IS THE FRAUD HERE. READY?

I'm glad you wasted your time typing up a dozen paragraphs which basically confirms what I've been saying all along. Anyone who disagrees with you is a liar.

You get put on ignore/time-out to prevent an on-going never-ending display of abnormal behavior. I'll use your own posting history as a perfect demonstration of your psychotic tendencies.

In the Pac/Floyd investigation thread, you entered it in Feb 2016...you battled back and forth with Spoon until Aug 2018! Two and a half years, from page 302 all the way to page 778. That is 476 pages and literally THOUSANDS of posts by you arguing with someone you never met in an effort to be proved right. You were willing to go nearly 500 PAGES before you finally threw in the towel. WHO DOES THAT???? That is another level of OCD and several other mental/personality disorders which I am not willing to entertain.

If you want to go another 500 pages with a total stranger to "win" some mythical forum title be my guest, but find another dance partner who has that sort of time and willingness.

[GhostofDempsey]

So, I'm having a hard time following. Does all this mean Dempsey and Johnson were or were not cherry pickers. I mean, that WAS the original point of this thread right?

What it comes down to is trying to sort through the biases and agendas to take a measured approach. Even then, we are left with two sides of a story that are missing a lot of context in between news articles and biographies. Each fan of the sport and can do their own research, look at who fought who and when they fought them, how they won, what physical advantages or disadvantages they may have had over their opponents and then try to draw a sane and logical conclusion. Not all fans are capable of that.

[ShoulderRoll]

Jack Johnson fought and beat the best black fighters of his era. Jack Dempsey never did.

So any attempt to paint the two of them as equivalent doesn't fly and rings hollow.

In my opinion.

[GhostofDempsey]

Jack Johnson fought and beat the best black fighters of his era. Jack Dempsey never did.

So any attempt to paint the two of them as equivalent doesn't fly and rings hollow.

In my opinion.

Johnson fought them when they were young and green. Nowhere near their respective primes, while he was in his prime. Refused to fight them while champion. Johnson fought Dempsey's sparring partner to a draw, that was the only black man he fought while champion.

[ShoulderRoll]

Johnson fought them when they were young and green. Nowhere near their respective primes, while he was in his prime. Refused to fight them while champion. Johnson fought Dempsey's sparring partner to a draw, that was the only black man he fought while champion.

Dempsey never fought them at all. Period.

So there is no equivalency between he and Jack Johnson in my book.

[GhostofDempsey]

Dempsey never fought them at all. Period.

So there is no equivalency between he and Jack Johnson in my book.

Dempsey fought better opposition while in their prime. Opponents closer to his size and weight too.

When McVea fought Johnson 3x, his record was 6-0, 8-1 and 8-2. Jeannette's record when fighting Johnson was 0-3, 6-5-1, 9-6-1, 9-7-1, 10-9-1, 10-10-1. These guys were novice level. Langford was 7 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than Johnson, less experienced too. Imagine a guy with those records fighting a prime Floyd or Pac? Floyd and Manny would be laughed out of the ring for that!

[ShoulderRoll]

Dempsey fought better opposition while in their prime. Opponents closer to his size and weight too.

When McVea fought Johnson 3x, his record was 6-0, 8-1 and 8-2. Jeannette's record when fighting Johnson was 0-3, 6-5-1, 9-6-1, 9-7-1, 10-9-1, 10-10-1. These guys were novice level. Langford was 7 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than Johnson, less experienced too. Imagine a guy with those records fighting a prime Floyd or Pac? Floyd and Manny would be laughed out of the ring for that!

What better opposition did Dempsey fight? I'm actually a big fan of his but his resume isn't the greatest.

[travestyny]

I'm glad you wasted your time typing up a dozen paragraphs which basically confirms what I've been saying all along. Anyone who disagrees with you is a liar.

You get put on ignore/time-out to prevent an on-going never-ending display of abnormal behavior. I'll use your own posting history as a perfect demonstration of your psychotic tendencies.

In the Pac/Floyd investigation thread, you entered it in Feb 2016...you battled back and forth with Spoon until Aug 2018! Two and a half years, from page 302 all the way to page 778. That is 476 pages and literally THOUSANDS of posts by you arguing with someone you never met in an effort to be proved right. You were willing to go nearly 500 PAGES before you finally threw in the towel. WHO DOES THAT???? That is another level of OCD and several other mental/personality disorders which I am not willing to entertain.

If you want to go another 500 pages with a total stranger to "win" some mythical forum title be my guest, but find another dance partner who has that sort of time and willingness.

I'm glad you wasted your time deflecting and not answering about what I supposedly photoshopped and still not posting any source for that article.


I think that proves exactly what I said about you. That you are an emotional, butthurt liar, GhostofForgery.


You should be ashamed of yourself! Shame, shame, shame!

[JakeTheBoxer]

Jack Johnson fought and beat the best black fighters of his era.c

Yeah, but those fighters didn`t get a chance to fight for a world title.