Was Ali that great?

[kiDynamite92]

You need to know the context. His greatness was more equated into his ability to rise into the occasion, walk the talk, and prove the doubters wrong.

I'll try to summarize how great Ali was during his time. Sonny Liston was the most feared man in the late 50s-early 60s.
A young Ali who was the 7–1 underdog that time, won in a major upset when Liston gave up in the 7th round, winning the heavyweight title for the first time.

Ali split fights with Frazier 1-1, and Norton 1-1, which meant those 2 guys were in the same league with Ali. He always had trouble with these 2 all-time greats. And then here comes George Foreman who beat Frazier and Norton in just 2 rounds, both knocking them out. Foreman became the scariest man of the 70s. No one gave Ali a chance to beat Foreman, to the point were people were so afraid that Ali could die. It was a major upset victory with Ali coming in as a 4–1 underdog against the unbeaten, heavy-hitting Foreman, introducing the rope-a-dope tactic at that time.

And then the Thrilla in Manila, where the only fight in the Ali-Frazier trilogy that didn't go the distance as Ali won via TKO.

I could have missed some notable legendary fights. Ali may not have been as technically sound as Mayweather, but Ali had it all, speed, agility, power, chin, heart, charisma, ring IQ, name it. Let alone the fact that he transcended the sport. What I liked the most is he never backed down from anyone.

Ali was technically all wrong but he got away with it because he was a freak of nature.

[CodeBreaker]

Ali was technically all wrong but he got away with it because he was a freak of nature.

You could say the same to Roy Jones. But technically all wrong? I don't think so. Ali's jab was always beautiful to watch, and his jab and 1-2 wasn't technically wrong at all. Well his hands were always down tho

[kiDynamite92]

You could say the same to Roy Jones. But technically all wrong? I don't think so. Ali's jab was always beautiful to watch, and his jab and 1-2 wasn't technically wrong at all. Well his hands were always down tho

Exactly. That's not how you're meant to box and he had his chin up and exposed all the time.

I rate him as the greatest heavyweight ever but if someone wanted to learn how to box, I'd never tell them to go and watch Muhammad Ali.

[GhostofDempsey]

You need to know the context. His greatness was more equated into his ability to rise into the occasion, walk the talk, and prove the doubters wrong.

I'll try to summarize how great Ali was during his time. Sonny Liston was the most feared man in the late 50s-early 60s.
A young Ali who was the 7–1 underdog that time, won in a major upset when Liston gave up in the 7th round, winning the heavyweight title for the first time.

Ali split fights with Frazier 1-1, and Norton 1-1, which meant those 2 guys were in the same league with Ali. He always had trouble with these 2 all-time greats. And then here comes George Foreman who beat Frazier and Norton in just 2 rounds, both knocking them out. Foreman became the scariest man of the 70s. No one gave Ali a chance to beat Foreman, to the point were people were so afraid that Ali could die. It was a major upset victory with Ali coming in as a 4–1 underdog against the unbeaten, heavy-hitting Foreman, introducing the rope-a-dope tactic at that time.

And then the Thrilla in Manila, where the only fight in the Ali-Frazier trilogy that didn't go the distance as Ali won via TKO.

I could have missed some notable legendary fights. Ali may not have been as technically sound as Mayweather, but Ali had it all, speed, agility, power, chin, heart, charisma, ring IQ, name it. Let alone the fact that he transcended the sport. What I liked the most is he never backed down from anyone.

Liston took dives. There was no money in it for the mob or boxing to keep him in as the champion. Norton was robbed at least once, many say twice. Norton wasn't even a great boxer. He learned how to beat Ali from Futch, just as Frazier did. Jimmy Young was also robbed. There were a lot of boxing insiders and fans alike who thought Doug Jones did enough to beat him. Ali did have great wins over Frazier and Foreman, but aside from that, he did what he was supposed to do against inferior, aging or smaller opponents.

That said, it was his charisma, star appeal, and in many ways the "villain" to many in the post-Vietnam hiatus that attracted fans to the sport when he was fighting. The timing of his arrival was perfect, right in the middle of the Civil Rights movement and a lot of civil unrest with war protesters, and various other social causes. He was an important figure in boxing, whether you loved him or hated him. A pop culture icon.

He was fortunate to have Howard Cosell and other networks giving him a lot of good press. He was able to repeat into the microphone that he was "The Greatest", a moniker that stuck with the casual fan base who didn't really know any better. Much like Mr. TBE. He had several prominent writers and talk show hosts supporting him as well. He was good for television and ratings, he made a lot of money for networks and promoters. It didn't hurt that he had a very well connected Angelo Dundee as his trainer.

Like I said earlier, he had just enough tricks in his bag to be successful against a very steep division at the time. He had excellent speed, reflexes, footwork and chin. Like Roy Jones, he relied upon reflexes too much and never adapted as he got older, outside of pushing fighters heads down from behind their neck to tire them out and keep them off balance. Ali, like Dempsey, wasn't the greatest fighter or HW, but they were each very important to the sport of boxing as a whole. Boxing icons who elevated the sport. They were each loved and hated equally by fans of their day and most importantly, they put asses in seats.

[QueensburyRules]

I rate him as the greatest heavyweight ever but if someone wanted to learn how to box, I'd never tell them to go and watch Muhammad Ali.

- - Amen to that, and conversely I'd never tell them to listen to Ali black history tall tales.

[CodeBreaker]

I rate him as the greatest heavyweight ever but if someone wanted to learn how to box, I'd never tell them to go and watch Muhammad Ali.

We can agree to that.

[The Old LefHook]

Yes, the Marciano is a top ten entry in the GOAT wars. Greb would be another'n. An' how you gwang leave Pep out? Duran & Robby are automatic. Walker & Langford perhaps should be.

[Rossman]

He was a great boxer with a great defense, heart and chin. But one of the things that set him above the others was how he won. He always found a way to win even when the odds were stacked against him. There were several fights where he was the underdog and still found a way to win. Most champions these days are almost always the favorite throughout their career.

[billeau2]

Exactly. That's not how you're meant to box and he had his chin up and exposed all the time.

I rate him as the greatest heavyweight ever but if someone wanted to learn how to box, I'd never tell them to go and watch Muhammad Ali.

As usual... That hits the nail on the head!

[billeau2]

You could say the same to Roy Jones. But technically all wrong? I don't think so. Ali's jab was always beautiful to watch, and his jab and 1-2 wasn't technically wrong at all. Well his hands were always down tho

Jones definitely had a similar situation. Just think for a second about a "hook." It comes around and not straight. So when Jones would leap in with a single, double, triple hook, physics tells us a straight lead, or jab would get there first. Jones was so fast that he could still throw that punch, along with a feint before of course, and get there in plenty of time before a straight punch neutralized the hook.

Ali used his jab in a manner where it was far more than just a set up punch. He used it as a lead, hitting with the front like one would use the cross, etc. The way he was able to use the jab, like Jones, the hook, was not a technical approach that could be mastered. Although I will say this: His shoulder and head movement was learned and could be learned.