Height vs Reach

[Rusty Tromboni]

there is a pedagogy and a process of adjusting the body. there are incredible things one can do with reach, with step, etc.

Nice to see you're catching on.

After months of ****ing my head against the wall it looks like i'm finally getting through to you.

This is why I never give up on anybody. There's always a chance they'll get it.

[billeau2]

Nope. Not at all.

Coming from practical Martial Arts (Wrestling, Brazilian Jujitsu, Boxing) and having been a High School teacher, I can say instruction should NEVER obfuscate. Obviously, there's always room for interpretation. And probably someone will always fail to register even the simplest of instruction. So when preparing someone for life, you should strive to be as clear as possible.

There's nothing to be gained from obfuscating. It doesn't appear wise or mystical or esoteric. Have you ever seen a directions manual ehivh purposely sought to obfuscate? Sure, it's a good money-maker. But that's exactly what's wrong with martial arts. And typically the first sign that it has limited/no practical value.

Well on the level of the casual it is obfiscation, no doubt. Lets just say that Charlie Goldman did a lot more than just say "Hey Marciano you have short arms so get inside..." But again, at the level of casual understanding? I get it. Sorry to trouble you.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Well on the level of the casual it is obfiscation, no doubt. Lets just say that Charlie Goldman did a lot more than just say "Hey Marciano you have short arms so get inside..." But again, at the level of casual understanding? I get it. Sorry to trouble you.

Dude, you were being snooty, and I couldn't resist having a little fun. Don't take it too personally.

[The Old LefHook]

A man with high hips is ideal for a pugilist. He can stay away from opponents via the lean, and they are unable to legally target the leggy fellow's gams. His torso itself is shorter than a short legged man's, so a small target for a man hampered by big modern gloves anyway. Such advantages mount up quickly for the fighter who knows how to employ them.

Why, long legs on a built-short man make me shiver with the thought of his potential! As trainer, you will need to ride him, to insist and persist, to pressure him, to nurse him and coddle him and milk the best performance forth he can give, for his natural attributes are meant to be molded by a firm hand that administers swift correction.

[The Old LefHook]

Now, combine such equipage with grippage.

[billeau2]

A man with high hips is ideal for a pugilist. He can stay away from opponents via the lean, and they are unable to legally target the leggy fellow's gams. His torso itself is shorter than a short legged man's, so a small target for a man hampered by big modern gloves anyway. Such advantages mount up quickly for the fighter who knows how to employ them.

Why, long legs on a built-short man make me shiver with the thought of his potential! As trainer, you will need to ride him, to insist and persist, to pressure him, to nurse him and coddle him and milk the best performance forth he can give, for his natural attributes are meant to be molded by a firm hand that administers swift correction.

One of the difficulties being to sink the weight. In the three mother systems of Chinese boxing most of the initial training...and we are talking about years, would be simply sinking the point below the navel and having the legs strong enough to hold it.

While this training by todays standards is inefficient, it makes sense...All we have to do is watch a very basically trained MMA fighter, like the Chinese guy who is whipping up on these Traditional Chinese "masters" (masters my A s s). None of these guys have any ability to hit something. Naturally they lose their form the first time they get punched in the nose! They cannot put their force behind anything!

If one were to go back in time and find a somewhat decent Tai Chi, Hsin Yi, or BaGua boxer, at the very least this boxer would be able to get into a position to hit and hit with the weight of the body. These loons they get can do neither.

I digress, but my point is with longer legs the person has to be able to still lower the weight center enough so when a punch is thrown there is a kinematic connection made. Without such it is just slap boxing... I have seen slap boxers who hit much better than the guys they find in China, whom are supposed "masters."

[billeau2]

Dude, you were being snooty, and I couldn't resist having a little fun. Don't take it too personally.

I do take it personally because I have to contend with making an effort to take years of learning, including a 55 year old body with arthritis, memory loss (short term) etc so I could get a handle on these ideas. I am no genius, I had to learn the old fashioned way. And every tom **** and harry wants to just think its a matter of...

"Hi my name is elbert and I invented a new style of martial arts...we kick from a longer range, punch midrange and grapple in close." You know how many times one has to hear the equivalent of that Rusty?

The great fencers that presaged boxings own James Figg, went through countless methods...some silly as making a 360 degree circle for all the possible cuts, etc. To eventually understand the ways we can affect fighting ranges with bladed weapons. The German and Spanish masters caught on quick...the Italian rapier masters? they were getting sliced and diced by ruffians with Bastard Swords... they could not understand how a 3 foot blade as sharp as a razor could be passed, with a short range weapon that looked like " a fat girl next to Marilyn Monroe."

The development of art technical skills also developed in Europe around the same time and can be epitomized by a canon of proportions that accurately describe proportion, comparison between a man, his arm lenght, trunk length, how that should be in ratio compared to the vanishing point on a painting... Before that? People just tried to get it right and no doubt some idiot said "oh yeah we just make sure the people in the background are smaller than the people in the front! Duhh!

So yeah it gets frustrating to try to explain that when we look at a frankenstein like Marciano, who had legs and arms, that were all in different proportion, that to just teach Marciano to run inside would have made the fight look like one of those Chinese matches where the bad MMA fighter beats the tar out of the Wing Chun guy.

When we take an angle against a trained opponent and it is obvious, the angle has to be used along with footwork and a total understanding of our potential to reach the target at different intervals. We have footwork to do this and we have the ability to move different parts of the body in strange sequences that would not occur, and are counter intuitive.

Archie Moore gets extension on his lead, often enough by what he did with his back shoulder, and not the front. Just like a wrestler who is locked up in a hold, may have to move a part of the body that is not anywhere near the actual hold, to free oneself from it.

The most important point to take from this is that many adjustments one learns in training, one would never know without a training partner telling them "yes that hurts bad! Good job!" A teacher has to know these adjustments and a feedback loop needs to be established, or we will never know when we are actually being effective.

[The Old LefHook]

Why, just look at the width of Robinson's stance. He may as well have been standing on three legs and was hardly ever knocked down, even with his long gams.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Why, just look at the width of Robinson's stance. He may as well have been standing on three legs and was hardly ever knocked down, even with his long gams.

You sure are inventive. Just when I think you've exhausted all the ways to be ****** and defy reality, you create another lie. Amazing.


Robinson all but blocked punches with his chin.

It's hard to think of a fighter at that elite a level who got decked as often as Robinson.

Even Golovkin, who has no head movement to speak of, has never hit the mat.

Robinson was damn near finished by Artie Levine. A fearsome puncher though he was, no one that bad could turn professional today.

[BattlingNelson]

Another thread ruined by insults.

FYI:

https://www.boxingscene.com/forums/s...d.php?t=844940