Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[GhostofDempsey]

I don't have to. He said, AS AN ACTOR.

If I don't get to "re-interpret" what he said, YOU don't get to assume that managers and promoters are lying with no proof!!!

You just proved yourself that you pull shlt out of your ass and try to switch it up on the fly. First it was McKetrick got to the press first. When I proved the promoters made statements about the fight in the press before him, now it's the promoters were lying, too. lol

Stop it. It's over.

It’s over alright, I proved McKetrick was a liar. Johnson himself said he drew the color line. Your meltdowns won’t change that. You’ve wasted enough of mine and everyone else’s time with your buffoonery. Off you go.

[GhostofDempsey]

Another lie by Gibson and assertion by the press of Johnson’s unwillingness to fight the like of McVea or the others:

JOHNSON AND McVea 7 Apr 1915

'Billy' Gibson, one of the best known promoters in the States, maintains that he is going to have a championship battle in Cuba between Jack Johnson and Sam M'Vea. Unless Johnson has grown decidedly less cautious -in his old age, there is little prospect of this match ever being made. Ten years ago when M'Vea was only a novice, Johnson knocked him out in twenty rounds. Johnson was then in his prime. At the present time M'Vea seems to be the best preserved of the 'Big Four' among the negro boxers and is just as formidable as ever.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/155529556?searchTerm=%22jack%20Johnson%22%20McKetrick&searchLimits=

[ShoulderRoll]

Travesty hasn’t proven anything. You are dismissed.

Ok. He has only posted numerous newspaper articles to support his arguments.

Let's see if you can post proof of Jack Johnson drawing the color line against Harry Wills.

But if you want to run away and pretend you "won" the debate that's ok too I guess?

[GhostofDempsey]

Ok. He has only posted numerous newspaper articles to support his arguments.

Let's see if you can post proof of Jack Johnson drawing the color line against Harry Wills.

But if you want to run away and pretend you "won" the debate that's ok too I guess?

I posted several sources from thoroughly researched books, videos, newspaper articles, testimonies from the fighters themselves, interviews, and quotes. I’ve done my due diligence here, and all of that was ignored or dismissed.

I posted an article several pages back where Johnson tossed Wills out of his camp because he sparred him hard and didn’t want the work. He never wanted anything to do with Wills after that, especially while Champion.

This was never about winning. But Travesty follows this same pattern in every single thread where he locks horns with other posters.

People who repeatedly exhibit this kind of behavior are by definition psychologically fragile. It’s difficult for people to accept, because to the outside world, they look as if they’re confidently standing their ground and not backing down, things we associate with strength. But mental rigidity is not a sign of strength, it is a sign of weakness. He is not choosing to stand his ground; he is compelled to in order to protect his fragile ego. It takes a certain amount of emotional strength to deal with admitting you’re wrong and own up to it.

When people are unable to admit they’re wrong, when they cannot tolerate the possibility that they are capable of mistakes, it is because they suffer from an ego so fragile they cannot get over it, they need to warp their perception of reality and challenge obvious facts in order to defend their not being wrong. Hence his constant “challenges” that never resolve anything. I predicted he would push me until he got put on ignore (after repeated warnings), which is exactly what he wanted so he could then start a thread about me and get his clique to pat him on the ass and tell him what a great job he did. Right on cue, like clockwork he did what I predicted.

[ron davis]

No, the middleweight fought him, and wanted a pay day.

[ShoulderRoll]

I posted several sources from thoroughly researched books, videos, newspaper articles, testimonies from the fighters themselves, interviews, and quotes. I’ve done my due diligence here, and all of that was ignored or dismissed.

I posted an article several pages back where Johnson tossed Wills out of his camp because he sparred him hard and didn’t want the work. He never wanted anything to do with Wills after that, especially while Champion.

You posted an article about Jack Johnson sending away a young Harry Wills from his training camp for the Jim Flynn fight.

Great...but how do you jump from that to Johnson ducked Wills and drew the color line against him? At what point was Wills ever a top contender to Jack Johnson's belt?

That seems to be a pattern with some of the evidence you have provided in this thread. It shows one thing but then you try to stretch it and claim it proves something else.

[GhostofDempsey]

You posted an article about Jack Johnson sending away a young Harry Wills from his training camp for the Jim Flynn fight.

Great...but how do you jump from that to Johnson ducked Wills and drew the color line against him? At what point was Wills ever a top contender to Jack Johnson's belt?

That seems to be a pattern with some of the evidence you have provided in this thread. It shows one thing but then you try to stretch it and claim it proves something else.

The pattern is that I provide factual sources and those of a different opinion won’t accept them or acknowledge them. You really think Wills didn’t want a shot at Johnson’s title if it were made available to him? He was tossed out of camp for working Johnson too hard. Johnson preferred smaller opponents, Wills was bigger. Johnson never gave legitimate title shots the other three, he wasn’t offering one to the guy he threw out of training camp.

[ShoulderRoll]

The pattern is that I provide factual sources and those of a different opinion won’t accept them or acknowledge them. You really think Wills didn’t want a shot at Johnson’s title if it were made available to him? He was tossed out of camp for working Johnson too hard. Johnson preferred smaller opponents, Wills was bigger. Johnson never gave legitimate title shots the other three, he wasn’t offering one to the guy he threw out of training camp.

You provided factual sources that Wills was a sparring partner for Johnson then got kicked out of his camp.

You didn't provide factual sources that Harry Wills was ever a top heavyweight during Johnson's reign nor that he earned a shot at Johnson's title then got ducked by him.

[GhostofDempsey]

You provided factual sources that Wills was a sparring partner for Johnson then got kicked out of his camp.

You didn't provide factual sources that Harry Wills was ever a top heavyweight during Johnson's reign nor that he earned a shot at Johnson's title then got ducked by him.

You haven’t provided factual sources that he wasn’t a viable opponent for Johnson’s title. See how this works?

Little Tony Ross got a title shot, his record was 12-9-3. Was he more deserving? Al Kaufman? Jack Murray at 15-7-17 was a top heavyweight? Frank Moran’s two wins prior to his title shot with Johnson were against opponents with records of 8-4 and 5-5-1, prior to them he lost, already had 9 losses in less than 40 fights. All these guys were top heavyweights more deserving or title shots than Langford, Jeannette, McVea, and Wills who all fought one another?

Here’s a fun fact; Langford, Jeannette, McVea, Wills don’t appear on Johnson’s record during the time he was champion.

[ShoulderRoll]

You haven’t provided factual sources that he wasn’t a viable opponent for Johnson’s title. See how this works?

Little Tony Ross got a title shot, his record was 12-9-3. Was he more deserving? Al Kaufman? Jack Murray at 15-7-17 was a top heavyweight? Frank Moran’s two wins prior to his title shot with Johnson were against opponents with records of 8-4 and 5-5-1, prior to them he lost, already had 9 losses in less than 40 fights. All these guys were top heavyweights more deserving or title shots than Langford, Jeannette, McVea, and Wills who all fought one another?

Here’s a fun fact; Langford, Jeannette, McVea, Wills don’t appear on Johnson’s record during the time he was champion.

Here's another fun fact: Wills lost to both McVea and Langford in 1914.

Jack Johnson lost the title to Willard in 1915.

During which time period of Johnson's reign was Harry Wills even on the map as a contender to Johnson? Let alone as someone that would excite the public to pay to see in a title fight?