Jack Johnson backed out of signed contract to rematch Langford

[travestyny]

In his 1910 French biography, Mes Combats, Johnson wrote of his fight with Sam: I found him one of the toughest adversaries I ever met in the ring. I weighed 190 pounds and Langford only 138. In the second round the little Negro hit me on the jaw with a terrible right hand and I fell as if upended by a cannon ball. In all my pugilistic career, not before and not afterwards, have I received a blow that struck me with such force. It was all I could do just to get back on my feet just as the referee was about to count “Ten!” I made it, but I assure you that I felt the effects of that punch for the rest of the fight. I recovered, but I would have to take my hat off to him if I hadn’t had so much science at my command. In the fifteenth round I was declared the winner on points.

This must be a fabrication.

Didn't Langford's manager admit that he lied about Langford knocking down Jack Johnson?

[QueensburyRules]

This must be a fabrication.

Didn't Langford's manager admit that he lied about Langford knocking down Jack Johnson?

- -The issue is JJ autobio or bio where he makes a statement.

Not whether Barney hugged U till U fainted in U squealing.

[GhostofDempsey]

Another exhibition fight that was billed as such:

At the time, Sam had no way of knowing that he would never be able to get Jack Johnson to officially meet him in the ring again. He did however, face him in an exhibition that was arranged to benefit the April 18th San Francisco earthquake survivors. The day after the fight with Johnson, Sam was asked if he’d be willing to appear in an exhibition that coming Saturday night at the Hub Theatre. When he accepted, they asked if there was anyone special he’d like to box, and he told them it didn’t matter but if they could get Jack Johnson he’d be much obliged. And that’s exactly who they lined up.

The exhibition against Johnson was just one of many that had been arranged for the benefit, and it was reported on the morning of the 28th that based upon advance sales the theatre probably would be unable to accommodate all who wished to attend. The program included twenty-one boxing bouts, two wrestling bouts and six vaudeville acts. All of the bouts were reportedly lively and evoked considerable applause from the crowd. There were no ropes and no ring; the boxers simply exhibited their skills on a theatre stage. The exhibition proceedings were briefly halted while Johnson was presented with a watch and chain, supposedly given by some admirers. A short acceptance speech by Johnson followed. Sam claimed to know the watch wasn’t from anybody but Johnson himself, and that Johnson had staged this little event in an effort to make himself appear popular. This annoyed Sam, who was also angered because he had heard that the day after their fight Johnson had issued a statement saying that he had taken it easy on Sam during their match. Sam claimed that when the first exhibition round began, he made it a point to get Jack into a clinch and let him know it wasn’t going to be an exhibition. This was going to be a real fight. [15] As soon as he broke loose of the clinch, Sam went after Johnson, slinging leather fast and furious. Johnson tried to hold off the onslaught as Sam rushed him across the stage, punching all the while. Quickly realizing Sam was serious, Johnson started to respond in kind. The pair fought from one side of the stage to the other, back to the curtains and forward towards the front of the stage, each determined to knock the other out. Before the round concluded they had knocked over their water buckets, chairs and anything else in their path. The referee became the invisible man.

Midway through the second round, Sam drove Johnson into the stage scenery, and they clinched as they fell into it. A second later the scenery fell upon them, splitting the canvas where their bodies poked out of it. Pushing the scenery to the floor, the pair emerged to resume fighting as furiously as ever! The crowd was in an uproar at the sight before them. They continued to battle this way into the third round, maneuvering their way around a cluttered floor. At one point they clinched and tried to toss one another. When that failed, they went back to brawling until someone called time, and the so-called “exhibition of the art of boxing” came to an end.

[QueensburyRules]

The New Mexico fight is also important because it was the cause/motivation of/for enactment of the Sims Act, (prohibition against the transportation of films across State borders; enacted July 31st, 1912).

Early on (that year) several 'white' newspapers had chided Johnson about his inability to find a venue for his defense and that he landed in the sparsely populated (brand new) State of New Mexico. The talk in the South was all about how they would 'starve the Negro out of the championship.'

Johnson replied to the taunts through the Negro papers, stating defiantly that NM didn't matter that he would make ten times as much off the fight film.

It was this Johnson retort that motivated Rep. Sims (Tennessee) and Rep. Roddenbury (Georgia) to push for the anti-fight pictures prohibition.

Roddenbury led the charge for the Southern Blue Dogs (who were boasting that they were 'shutting off every revenue stream available to the Negro') while Sims worked the northern Progressive ********, who viewed prize fighting as an obscenity; often pointing to the possible return of 1910 violence if action wasn't taken.

Two years earlier in 1910 the Smith Bill, which tried to paint prize fighting as por*ography had failed, (mainly blocked, ironically by the Southern Blue Dogs and Uncle Joe Cannon of MI) but now in 1912 with the Blue Dogs on board with the progressive reformers, (with very different motives) the combination was able to push the bill through Congress.

- -Top shelf, Perno.

Non boxing trivia-Mason Dixion line the original pre battle line drawn separating plantation slave owning Dems from abolitionist Reps.

>>>150 years later and skunks as is their natures swapped stripes with Dems controlling north of the line and Reps south of the line.

Still squabbling over the spoils of power to the dereliction of the people. I don't make this shhh up...only in America!

[Willie Pep 229]

In his 1910 French biography, Mes Combats, Johnson wrote of his fight with Sam: I found him one of the toughest adversaries I ever met in the ring. I weighed 190 pounds and Langford only 138. In the second round the little Negro hit me on the jaw with a terrible right hand and I fell as if upended by a cannon ball. In all my pugilistic career, not before and not afterwards, have I received a blow that struck me with such force. It was all I could do just to get back on my feet just as the referee was about to count “Ten!” I made it, but I assure you that I felt the effects of that punch for the rest of the fight. I recovered, but I would have to take my hat off to him if I hadn’t had so much science at my command. In the fifteenth round I was declared the winner on points.

Over at Boxrec we found no evidence of Langford knocking down Johnson. Boxrec does claim, for the same fight that Langford, went down in the 6th.

Jack Johnson (The Galveston Giant) a total of five time in five fights

Joe Choynski ::: (1) ::: Harmony Hall, Galveston ::: 25/02/1901 ::: Down Round 3 ::: L KO
Stanley Ketchel ::: (1) ::: Mission Street Arena, Colma ::: 16/10/1909 ::: Down Round 12 ::: W KO
Jess Willard :: (1) ::: Oriental Park, Havana ::: 05/04/1915 ::: Down Round 26 ::: L KO
Bob Lawson ::: (1) ::: Coliseum, Ciudad Juarez ::: 30/05/1926 ::: Down Round 7 ::: L RTD
Bearcat Wright ::: (1) ::: Topeka, KA ::: 16-04-1928 ::: Down Round 5 ::: L RTD

Of course this is Jack Johnson, so we know he is a liar, it's just difficult to figure out when he was lying.

From Boxrec:

Two and a half years before the start of Johnson's legendary reign as World Heavyweight Champion, he met Sam Langford at the Lincoln Athletic Club in Chelsea, Massachusetts in defense of his "colored" portion of the heavyweight crown. Johnson, who had met the best heavyweight contenders (compared to the 156 lbs Langford, who had just recently started fighting heavyweights), dominated the bout and won by a lopsided fifteen-round decision. However, Langford's manager, Joe Woodman, told everyone who would listen that Langford floored the "Galveston Giant" with a right uppercut and gave him a tremendous battle. Woodman's account persisted for years, which offended Johnson greatly and prompted him to issue a series of vehement denials.

Fleischer once cornered Woodman and good-naturedly demanded the true version of events. According to Fleischer, this was Woodman’s response: “You’ve got me, Nat. Langford never dropped Johnson. But I was anxious to fix up another fight between the two and, knowing Jack’s pride, I invented the story of that knockdown to goad him into the ring against Sam again. Although it never happened, all the newspapermen believed it. They just never took the trouble to investigate. That knockdown was just a publicity gimmick.”

[GhostofDempsey]

Interesting story that is difficult to prove or disprove.

Around the time of the fight itself no reports surfaced of an actual Langford-Jeffries sparring session taking place, but such a story did emerge about 2 ½ years later. The following article ran in the January 18, 1913 issue of the British publication The Mirror of Life and Boxing World: When Sam Langford Knocked Out Jim Jeffries by George Almy (American correspondent)

According to “Biddy” Bishop, the old-time fight manager and sports writer, now located out in Tacoma (WA), Jim Barry is the father of an interesting story that pertains to the tragedy at Reno two years ago. As my fellow-townsman, Sam Langford, figures as one of the principals, the story may be of interest to Post readers, so I am handing it to you via “Biddy” Bishop and Jim Barry for what it may be worth. The story follows: That Jim Jeffries was knocked out in four rounds in a private bout with Sam Langford just a few days before his memorable battle with Jack Johnson at Reno, which was no doubt responsible for the nervous breakdown, and which aided largely in his defeat, is the assertion of Jim Barry, Chicago heavyweight boxer, at present in Tacoma.

The impromptu contest, between Jeffries and Langford was arranged as a sort of tryout for Jeff. The big boilermaker wanted to test his fighting strength on the eve of the big battle. It took place at Moana Springs and was witnessed by only half a dozen people, all of them trainers of Jeffries. Joe Woodman, Langford’s manager, and the colored boxer himself, were the only ones present outside of Jeff’s own handlers. The little affair has been kept a secret all these months, only to be disclosed by Langford’s manager, who confided it to Barry, who gave out the information to the writer lately at the Donnelly Hotel. “That’s as sure as you’re a foot high,” said Barry. “Joe Woodman told me all about it and I know he would not string me, for Joe and I have been close friends for a long time. I’m telling you this on the quiet.”

Barry says the tryout match was framed up about a week before the Reno battle. A large room at the hotel where Jeff was staying at Mona Springs was cleared of its furniture, and the men went at it on the floor with no ring. Five ounce gloves were used. Woodman handled and cared for Langford in the bout, while there were four men who attended Jeffries: Bob Armstrong, Sam Berger, Jim Corbett, and the former champion’s old friend, **** Adams. No one else around the training quarters knew of the bout, and to this day Jeffries’ other trainers, Roger Cornell and Farmer Burns, do not know that it took place, so carefully was the secret guarded. “I did not see the scrap myself, but Woodman told me confidentially that Jeff had no chance with Langford, and that the Tar Baby knocked him out in the fourth round,” says Barry. “Twice in the third round Langford floored Jeffries. Jeff didn’t punish Sam very much. The big fellow was slow and couldn’t hit well.”

It was probably this as much as the great strain on the former champion, brought about by excessive training and other worries, that caused his mental collapse and made him a mark for the big black champion. Knowing that a man much smaller than Johnson had whipped him had its effect. Fearing defeat, Jeffries entered the ring with Johnson more than two-thirds beaten, but a shell of his former greatness. So to Sam Langford Johnson probably owes his present lofty seat in the realm of pugilism.

[GhostofDempsey]

Over at Boxrec we found no evidence of Langford knocking down Johnson. Boxrec does claim, for the same fight that Langford, went down in the 6th.

Jack Johnson (The Galveston Giant) a total of five time in five fights

Joe Choynski ::: (1) ::: Harmony Hall, Galveston ::: 25/02/1901 ::: Down Round 3 ::: L KO
Stanley Ketchel ::: (1) ::: Mission Street Arena, Colma ::: 16/10/1909 ::: Down Round 12 ::: W KO
Jess Willard :: (1) ::: Oriental Park, Havana ::: 05/04/1915 ::: Down Round 26 ::: L KO
Bob Lawson ::: (1) ::: Coliseum, Ciudad Juarez ::: 30/05/1926 ::: Down Round 7 ::: L RTD
Bearcat Wright ::: (1) ::: Topeka, KA ::: 16-04-1928 ::: Down Round 5 ::: L RTD

Of course this is Jack Johnson, so we know he is a liar, it's just difficult to figure out when he was lying.

From Boxrec:

Two and a half years before the start of Johnson's legendary reign as World Heavyweight Champion, he met Sam Langford at the Lincoln Athletic Club in Chelsea, Massachusetts in defense of his "colored" portion of the heavyweight crown. Johnson, who had met the best heavyweight contenders (compared to the 156 lbs Langford, who had just recently started fighting heavyweights), dominated the bout and won by a lopsided fifteen-round decision. However, Langford's manager, Joe Woodman, told everyone who would listen that Langford floored the "Galveston Giant" with a right uppercut and gave him a tremendous battle. Woodman's account persisted for years, which offended Johnson greatly and prompted him to issue a series of vehement denials.

Fleischer once cornered Woodman and good-naturedly demanded the true version of events. According to Fleischer, this was Woodman’s response: “You’ve got me, Nat. Langford never dropped Johnson. But I was anxious to fix up another fight between the two and, knowing Jack’s pride, I invented the story of that knockdown to goad him into the ring against Sam again. Although it never happened, all the newspapermen believed it. They just never took the trouble to investigate. That knockdown was just a publicity gimmick.”

Please don’t rely upon Boxrec as your sole source. It’s the Wikipedia of boxing sources.

[travestyny]

You posted ten paragraphs that prove nothing. You cannot prove it was a title fight because it wasn’t. You are grabbing at straws trying to disprove one claim by offering totally unrelated examples from other obscure fights. You have not proven me wrong about anything nor have you proven yourself right about the bottom line of this discussion.

My position hasn’t shifted at all, all of these explanations are viable. You have repeatedly ignored every source, particularly that of historians and scholars. You assume you are right and they are wrong based solely upon a couple of newspapers articles that were vague and non-specific regarding title and exhibition fights. It is universally accepted that Johnson did not offer any of the four black fighters we discussed a title shot.

No amount of conjecture will convince me the Johnson/Jeannette fight was for a title. You can continue to spin your wheels and offer unrelated documentation to push your theory across the goal line. For whatever reason you cannot accept a difference in opinion or that someone else may be right.

Well I certainly don't know what you are accusing me of ignoring. I'm pretty sure I've addressed nearly everything you've brought up.

You mentioned the contract for $5000, and I agreed with you.

You mentioned the NSC offer for 6000 pounds and I showed you that it was in fact for 3000 pounds.

You mentioned McIntosh. I showed where he said he pulled the plug on the fights.

You mentioned bouts to take place in France. All I said was show the details.

You keep claiming that this was not to be a championship fight vs. Jeannette. Can you show me EVEN ONE SOURCE that says as much???

Here is the final proof that it was. Joe Jeannette's manager talking about it being for the Undisputed Championship of the World.

Negro who is to Fight Jack Johnson FOR CHAMPIONSHIP TITLE will appear here tomorrow night.

Before the end of September, JOE JEANNETTE WILL BE THE UNDISPUTED HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPION OF THE WORLD.

That proves you are wrong. And again, this was JOE JEANNETTE'S MANAGER, DAN McKETRICK.

I'm not sure how you are going to argue with Joe Jeannette's manager, but you're welcome to take a go at it.


Come on, bruh. If you can't admit you are wrong now.....

[travestyny]

- -The issue is JJ autobio or bio where he makes a statement.

Not whether Barney hugged U till U fainted in U squealing.

Did you fall and hurt your head again?

[Willie Pep 229]

Please don’t rely upon Boxrec as your sole source. It’s the Wikipedia of boxing sources.

True!

But most often correct and only sometimes wrong.

But again, true!