Frank Bruno vs James Douglas

[Rusty Tromboni]

Spoken like someone who has obviously never played organized football.

Except ya know, I made varsity my sophmore year.

Pittsburgh Post Gazette knew me and my brothers names pretty well.

I didn't have the size to play in college, but was good enough to assistant coach along with wrestling.

I loved playing football. But in no way does it require the same discipline and pain tolerance as Boxing. And definitely no where near as much as wrestling.


Basically, in the CRADLE OF FOOTBALL, if you have a school that is worth mentioning for football, they have a great wrestling program, too.

It's actually easier to have schools with good wrestling programs than football programs because of money and headcount.

But again, that's all changed in the last 20 years. Now there's regional schools. And sloppy fat kids are a dime a dozen. And there parents all open their wallets believing their kid is the next Super Bowl MVP.

I remembered we used to joke "good play, man. Maybe Mr. ROoney will give you a call for a job this week." When I was coaching, that's how the parents used to talk... but not sarcastically. Dead serious.

[billeau2]

Yeah,that's one I might take with a grain of salt, or leave open to broad interpretation.

Plenty of people enjoy fighting.







Great insight.

I'm pretty sure his dad got him into Boxing. A story not unlike Cooney's.

And it may actually have been symptomatic of many fighters of that generation: ones who had so much potential, but failed to realize it. Other factors (*******) contributed, but the will to fight is essential because eventually it isn't easy anymore.

We always talk about how Boxing has lost its monopoly on top tier talent to other sports. But fighting is hard.

I haven't coached for several years now. But the Wrestling is dying. Kids have lost their hunger.

Football (remember when that was a full-contact sport?) sucks up a lot of kids who wanna unload aggression. Waaay less sacrifice and way less pain involved.

Thats a shame about wrestling. It was popularized when MMA came on the scene. Things that take a lot of work are always left to the few. For years I have tried to explain to people that there are no martial arts that are made for shortcuts. You perform based on how you train.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Thats a shame about wrestling. It was popularized when MMA came on the scene. Things that take a lot of work are always left to the few. For years I have tried to explain to people that there are no martial arts that are made for shortcuts. You perform based on how you train.

I don't know about popularized, but certainly familiarized. Anyway its popularity was already in decline.

Think about it. We're in an increasingly less violent society. One that is also increasingly removed from manual labor. It's a society of excess, not of want. And yet people are also becoming increasingly *************** so there's less incentive to work hard to improve your station in life.

That all kinda runs counter current to what's required of Wrestling.

My dad was in the Navy for Korea, and re-enlisted for Vietnam. He discouraged us, at least implicitly, from joining the military based on his experiences in combat. While my oldest brother (definitely psychotic and not meant for normal society) made a career of it, the rest of us never had to go to war. We all wrestled though. My dad loved it. He felt it taught us good Protestant values (we're raised Catholic, even he converted). Self-sacrifice, ingenuity, self-reliance, accountability, hard-work, perservence... blah blah blah. All the stuff that made America. But for the last several decades America has simply been running a victory lap.

Everyone goes to college now. Everyone can "afford" it because of loans. No one needs a sport to be involved because there are countless extra curricular activities. Even as far as sports go, there are more to chose from. And the other sports have all become easier to play and less harmful.

Me and my brothers grew up adoring John Smith, Dave Shultz, Kenny Monday. Obviously Gable and eventually Karelian were a big deal for us. I dunno how much kids care today to be champions like them.

There are still great wrestlers Sanderson and now Snyder, IMO, are up there with Gable and Smith. They really are. At what they do best they are unstoppable. Jordan Burroughs and Dake aren't too far off. My brothers have separately mentioned they had coaches Burroughs would eventually have before we moved out of New jersey. So it isn't totally dead. But it's not what it was decades ago.

[billeau2]

I don't know about popularized, but certainly familiarized. Anyway its popularity was already in decline.

Think about it. We're in an increasingly less violent society. One that is also increasingly removed from manual labor. It's a society of excess, not of want. And yet people are also becoming increasingly *************** so there's less incentive to work hard to improve your station in life.

That all kinda runs counter current to what's required of Wrestling.

My dad was in the Navy for Korea, and re-enlisted for Vietnam. He discouraged us, at least implicitly, from joining the military based on his experiences in combat. While my oldest brother (definitely psychotic and not meant for normal society) made a career of it, the rest of us never had to go to war. We all wrestled though. My dad loved it. He felt it taught us good Protestant values (we're raised Catholic, even he converted). Self-sacrifice, ingenuity, self-reliance, accountability, hard-work, perservence... blah blah blah. All the stuff that made America. But for the last several decades America has simply been running a victory lap.

Everyone goes to college now. Everyone can "afford" it because of loans. No one needs a sport to be involved because there are countless extra curricular activities. Even as far as sports go, there are more to chose from. And the other sports have all become easier to play and less harmful.

Me and my brothers grew up adoring John Smith, Dave Shultz, Kenny Monday. Obviously Gable and eventually Karelian were a big deal for us. I dunno how much kids care today to be champions like them.

There are still great wrestlers Sanderson and now Snyder, IMO, are up there with Gable and Smith. They really are. At what they do best they are unstoppable. Jordan Burroughs and Dake aren't too far off. My brothers have separately mentioned they had coaches Burroughs would eventually have before we moved out of New jersey. So it isn't totally dead. But it's not what it was decades ago.

As much as I give you grief, I cannot give you greenK on this. I don't know how the system works here lol, I do wish I could. I Grok your message... Grok was a term Robert Heinlein invented, in Stranger in a Strange land, one of his best works. It is supposed to convey more than simple "agreement," but a fundamental state of empathy, counderstanding, as though the words are a tune one is in synch with and knows the notes, sings them perhaps, but always goes into that state where we feel something that connects us more than simply "I guess I feel that way."

Some say we have been getting less and less "able" as this period draws towards an end point... This is a popular Indian belief... When the Vedas were proscribed, men were with the Gods as one... And the toughness needed to "do" was part of our makeup, presumably otherwise we would not make it, and our genes would dissapear. Maybe it is no ***** fact that human being have the least genetic diversity of any developed species on the planet... Our success is held close to that genetic vest, making sure the few that are chosen can do the job for toughness, and endurance.

I have tried and succeded with my boys trying to get them to realize that to be really good at anything, requires many of the same attributes. And... Excellence is a virtue on its own, It allows one to take on any task with understanding and success.

But when i see kids today, so many of them look lost.It breaks my heart.

[uncle ben]

At their best Bruno looks completely lost.

Douglas stops him late after thoroughly schooling him.

My thoughts exactly.