How was Angelo Dundee as a trainer?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Past a certain point, does an elite professional need a trainer at all? I mean, what does a trainer have to teach Terence Crawford? Does his trainer notice things that Crawford doesn’t?

Tyson Fury fought the greatest fight of his life against Wilder with a guy in his corner who lacked even basic experience. I’m sure his trainer was helpful, but I doubt he taught Fury anything significant.

Crawford and Fury are perfect examples, actually.

Crawford's defense is ridiculously porous.

Fury has no offense.

They need better trainers, despite being the best in their respective divisions.

Getting back to Dundee - Pastrano was much more limiter than Johnson, but look how that fight played out.

A good corner can do a lot. Usually, the problem is the fighter not listening. George Foreman going Prima Donna under Gil Clancy is a perfect example. Apparently it got to the point where George was wearing eye liner and lipstick to the gym, and insisting he be called Miss Diana Ross.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco wrote that Angelo's brother, Chris Dundee “had to join the boxing union of Frankie Carbo.” The "membership" helped Dundee, brother of manager Angelo Dundee, to develop world champions at his 5th Street Gym. Without happy fighters and worthy matchups there was no business.

Carbo, who used the alias “Mr. Gray” in arranging fights, chose the contenders; he was probably behind what was then thought to be a mismatched bout between Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) and Sonny Liston in February 1964 at the Miami Beach Auditorium. Throughout the years, however, Dundee maintained he hadn’t done business with Carbo. In 1960 he was quoted as saying boxing wasn’t “big enough any more to attract a real racketeer.” There was more money, he said, in horse racing, football and baseball.

Before that historic, if not pretty, 1964 fight, rumors flew about Chris Dundee using Carbo’s influence to obtain certain closed circuit television rights for another championship fight. But Dundee steadfastly denied connections ... and then there was the time Frankie Carbo, in the company of Chris Dundee, picked up the check of Miami News editor Howard Kleinberg and his wife at the Saxony Hotel restaurant. He asked Dundee who the friend was who waved when he attempted to pay the check. Dundee told a startled (and not entirely happy) Kleinberg it was Carbo. Wink wink.

No one gets a little bit pregnant. Dundee would never have admitted any ties to Carbo or the mob, but where there is smoke there is fire. Where there was Carbo, there was a fix or favor owed.

Damn, man! That's awesome info. Sh.itty to here it took place. But the truth needs to be told.

Thanks for sharing that!

I always wondered if Graham's loss in Cuba to Gavilan wasn;t a Carboscheme.

[OctoberRed]

Damn, man! That's awesome info. Sh.itty to here it took place. But the truth needs to be told.

Thanks for sharing that!

I always wondered if Graham's loss in Cuba to Gavilan wasn;t a Carboscheme.

I agree, some great info.

[Mikeh333]

I always wondered if both Ali - Liston fights were fixed. I wonder about the Norton fights too

[NChristo-]

Think he's often overrated because of his reputation, most well known obviously for his work with Ali and Leonard but Luis Sarria was the main conditioner and trainer for a lot of his stable, most famous for his corner work in which he is up there but overall I think he's below Ray Arcel, Eddie Futch, Jack Blackburn, Charley Goldman, Freddie Brown etc. Top 10 for sure but doesn't deserve to be top 5 which is where most seem to put him

[OctoberRed]

I always wondered if both Ali - Liston fights were fixed. I wonder about the Norton fights too

Those rumors have been going around for generations at this point.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Be clear that Ali never fixed anything.

The first fight all the $ was on an easy 1-2 rd Ko. Then the $ started shifting to later rds, but when it became obvious that wasn't gonna happen, the goodfellas mitigated their losses with some bets on the 7th and had Sonny pulled.

The rematch was just an officiating disaster by Walcott after a DQ performance by Ali and interference by Nat. Nobody won a dime in that fight!