How was Angelo Dundee as a trainer?

[VG_Addict]

Dundee is often considered one of the best trainers of all time, but how was he, really? Was he a great trainer, or did he just get lucky finding once in a lifetime talents in Ali and Leonard?

From what I've read, he was more of a motivator than a trainer.

[GhostofDempsey]

He inherited fighters who were already established. His mob connections helped him secure the right fights for them. A good trainer but also shady and a bit of a snake oil salesman. Definitely does not deserve the legendary status he was given while standing in the shadow of Ali and Leonard.

[The Old LefHook]

A cheerleader.

[QueensburyRules]

Dundee is often considered one of the best trainers of all time, but how was he, really? Was he a great trainer, or did he just get lucky finding once in a lifetime talents in Ali and Leonard?

From what I've read, he was more of a motivator than a trainer.

- -if a fighter need skills, Angie could oblige, but yeah , prob no greater fight motivater in boxing.

[Rusty Tromboni]

He inherited fighters who were already established.

So true. Needs to always mentioned. People too often miss that fact.

That being, said, that has become the trend. You could credit him for being a trend-setter. He also didn't handle his fighters with kid gloves. He matched them hard.

His mob connections helped him secure the right fights for them.

Tell that the Rodriguez.

He kept getting matched with Griffith and getting denied.

If you're going to make comment like that, you should support it with proof.

I've never heard anything about Angelo being connected. And he was well known for throwing wiseguys out of his gym. Apparently that had something the do with him moving to Florida... or at least he wouldn't pay the "local tax". My dad was a Detective in Philly shortly after Dundee left. He really disliked Boxing, but I remember he'd bring that fact up when Boxing was discussed, out of admiration for Angelo. He felt it cost a lot of promising young men the chance at a father-figure who'd help them get their lives on track.

A good trainer but also shady and a bit of a snake oil salesman.

?

Definitely does not deserve the legendary status he was given while standing in the shadow of Ali and Leonard.

he made Ali.

He wasn't the best trainer, per se. Like Rooney, or Gil clancy, but he could construct an excellent camp. He sub-contracted to guys who were very good at their assigned task, and he built great strategies. He was a general.

Sounds more like Bill Bellichick than your High School Football coach, right?

[Rusty Tromboni]

A cheerleader.

Mind actually supporting something you claim with FACT, Mr. Humphries?

You've never bothered before, so I am not expecting any change now.

But how does the guy who brings along Basilio, Rodriguez, Leonard, and Ali get reduced to "cheerleader".

Just the development we saw from Rodirguez to Leonard (El Feo 2.0) shows how he developed as a trainer.

Ali wasn't really special at anyone one thing besides speed, but for all his limitation and his persistent ***** is still called "The Greatest". ****** as that might be, it reflect well on Dundee's work.

But come on, show us how he was jsut a cheerleader. You have all the answers.

[Mikeh333]

Past a certain point, does an elite professional need a trainer at all? I mean, what does a trainer have to teach Terence Crawford? Does his trainer notice things that Crawford doesn’t?

Tyson Fury fought the greatest fight of his life against Wilder with a guy in his corner who lacked even basic experience. I’m sure his trainer was helpful, but I doubt he taught Fury anything significant.

[J-champ]

He could take fighters to a new level. Perhaps with out him Ali and Leonard might have had different paths.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Nobody had more gravitas with officials than Angie.

Really, Ali wasn't suited for other trainers. Angie the only one who could handle the mercurial wild man rollercoaster ride of Ali and fit in with Budini, Kilroy, and Herbert so seamlessly.

[GhostofDempsey]

So true. Needs to always mentioned. People too often miss that fact.

That being, said, that has become the trend. You could credit him for being a trend-setter. He also didn't handle his fighters with kid gloves. He matched them hard.



Tell that the Rodriguez.

He kept getting matched with Griffith and getting denied.

If you're going to make comment like that, you should support it with proof.

I've never heard anything about Angelo being connected. And he was well known for throwing wiseguys out of his gym. Apparently that had something the do with him moving to Florida... or at least he wouldn't pay the "local tax". My dad was a Detective in Philly shortly after Dundee left. He really disliked Boxing, but I remember he'd bring that fact up when Boxing was discussed, out of admiration for Angelo. He felt it cost a lot of promising young men the chance at a father-figure who'd help them get their lives on track.



?



he made Ali.

He wasn't the best trainer, per se. Like Rooney, or Gil clancy, but he could construct an excellent camp. He sub-contracted to guys who were very good at their assigned task, and he built great strategies. He was a general.

Sounds more like Bill Bellichick than your High School Football coach, right?

Fight doctor Ferdie Pacheco wrote that Angelo's brother, Chris Dundee “had to join the boxing union of Frankie Carbo.” The "membership" helped Dundee, brother of manager Angelo Dundee, to develop world champions at his 5th Street Gym. Without happy fighters and worthy matchups there was no business.

Carbo, who used the alias “Mr. Gray” in arranging fights, chose the contenders; he was probably behind what was then thought to be a mismatched bout between Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali) and Sonny Liston in February 1964 at the Miami Beach Auditorium. Throughout the years, however, Dundee maintained he hadn’t done business with Carbo. In 1960 he was quoted as saying boxing wasn’t “big enough any more to attract a real racketeer.” There was more money, he said, in horse racing, football and baseball.

Before that historic, if not pretty, 1964 fight, rumors flew about Chris Dundee using Carbo’s influence to obtain certain closed circuit television rights for another championship fight. But Dundee steadfastly denied connections ... and then there was the time Frankie Carbo, in the company of Chris Dundee, picked up the check of Miami News editor Howard Kleinberg and his wife at the Saxony Hotel restaurant. He asked Dundee who the friend was who waved when he attempted to pay the check. Dundee told a startled (and not entirely happy) Kleinberg it was Carbo. Wink wink.

No one gets a little bit pregnant. Dundee would never have admitted any ties to Carbo or the mob, but where there is smoke there is fire. Where there was Carbo, there was a fix or favor owed.