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I've heard tell that traditional karate guys do poorly against tough street fighters in ye alley. I've heard say Aikido does well in street fights. I am 6'9" 1/2. That does well in street fights too. I've heard talk that the main advantage of martial artists in fights is simply that they are often in shape.
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It all depends on how one trains. Aikido has a reputation of not doing well, but again...see above. I always tell people this: lets assume common sense is in operation and you see Aikido and you see boxing and you are told the following: "The boxers you have seen never spar, they do drills continually with no contact to speak of. The Aikido guys go at it hammer and tongs, slam each other on the mat, get punched at to practice, etc...Who do you think would fight better?
In my case, and in the case of these gents, fighting was training. You learned techniques and then were thrown in immediately to use the technique . And the fighting was not sparring, it was fighting... So we got bloodied up good, and we were comfortable getting smacked, grabbed, etc.
Also keep in mind things happened. Like one of the big karate guys, forgot his name...was beaten up by 3 guys. He was in fact a small guy with a commercial studio, and probably not much of a fighter.Comment
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Looked sloppy, but brutal considering the bare knuckles. I also saw an old one of dolph lundgren knocking a guy out with a knee to the face. Curious about the rulesets and if they even wore mouth pieces, it seems reckless.Comment
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Some excellent comments.
In real fighting...whether it be a grapple, a shot to the head, even fencing...many times one has to deconstruct and pull out all the distortion to see the technique at work. One reason the technique looks sloppy is that these guys are pulling the technique trying not to break the guy. When chopping this means stopping a bit and opening the hand up instead of following through with the knife hand strike.
Here is an example of what it really looks like, notice the follow through also notice how clean the technique is:
Yes reckless... No question about it. problem was karate is not designed for pads and guys had to see how it translates. This had the effect of guys like my teacher's teacher Riley Hawkins modifying the delivery of certain techniques so they could be done out of more conventional fighting postures. You will notice that the fighters really look akward. This is because, traditional Japanese Karate, Shotokan was the long time standard used for fighting (Kumite) and you lined up in a front stance with one hand at hip other hand extended, you were allowed to score with just three techniques: front kick, reverse punch, and back knuckle/chopping front hand.
Now...what this did was make the guys very able to jump in there and hit...But it was too limiting so the so called 'open" tournaments developed a side stance and allowed more techniques, etc. Eventually after the 1966 California Nationals, the tournaments developed into "blood and guts" karate.
These guys you see here were the first wave...Joe Lewis, Bill Wallace, Jim Harris, Skip Mullins, Chuck Norris, Etc. More refined guys were to follow. A lot of Black guys were exceptional fighters: Shotokan's Tom La Puppet, Riley Hawkins, who was so fast that he could hit his shadow! lol.
Regarding rules:
Usually pulling to the face, using the foot and not the heel. full contact to the body. Every tournament had its "character" in some, it was all out, in others if was a joke. when I was training my guys in college we would clean out all the divisions...except me. I always got DQ'ed! lol. I was trained for more contact and couldn't break the habit of grabbing the guy to reverse punch him. So I would win my fight and not be allowed to continue. Meanwhile all my charges picked up the trophies lol. We had a great laugh about that. It was just that I came up training in the Baltimore, Washngton area, which was heavy contact and we were fighting around Southern Maryland, the suburbs of Washington, and we fought on the Navy Base. Good Times!Last edited by billeau2; 11-20-2019, 05:19 PM.Comment
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Oh! and the kids classes... Heres a true story. I have two sons, and I have always trained them, age appropriate, from when they could walk around pretty much. I have been a Martial Arts teacher many years and when I taught kids I wanted the training to be more than babysitting.
So we were living in the Bay Area and there was a Judo school with a good teacher, Wali Cahil (sp?) and I figured I might take my kid for the training... Not a big fan of the break falls, but I liked the Judo as a kids no nonsense activity...so we are told the kids class starts in a half hour, which we would observe.
So i am watching as Cahill's instructors, very serious looking fellows are putting students through the paces...
The kids class starts, everyone bows in... Instructor goes into a side room pulls out a few rubber balls "dodge ball!!!!" I just took my son and politely excused myself. These kids classes have become a source for these schools to make money. They are not really a good idea in my opinion. They certainly do not teach kids martial arts movements. Its very sad... and when I saw this occur at this school it just made me shake my head.Comment
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When I started in the early 80's with TKD in the Philadelphia area there were a few old school places where they were full contact. Few and far between. I was taught at a school where most of the instructors were very pro light contact. But we had one guy who was a Philly cop who said you are not doing your mates any favors by going light. You need to know what it is like to get hit. He was tough big, strong and fast. In retrospect he was right. One thing I do not like looking back on my TKD training is that they NEVER taught us useable techniques and combinations when sparring. I mean I was in great shape but had no f'ing idea what to do in a fight or sparring match.Comment
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- -When the oldest was 11-12, he wanted to train in Gracie jujitsu that was all the rage.
Alas, no such classes existed at the time and he didn't want karate. A year later a Gracie exhibition was held that I attended and it was just some tubby guys rolling around with each GI in their hands, the antithesis of combat. Thankfully he had moved on and at any rate, his mom forbade any MA for fear he'd use it on his brother who he could already beatup.
His bro ended up taking karate classes that didn't help him when he initiated a impromptu spar with me as 17 yr old. I just threw him around to let him know his limitations.
They both grew up soft compared to my early days which is ok if they know their limitations.Comment
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