The Top 20 All-Time Greatest P4P List

[Willie Pep 229]

Gans claimed the McGovern fight was a work ...

Langford claimed he carried Ketchel

Johnson claimed he threw the fight to willard

Jackson claimed he hurt his ankle against Corbett

Louis claimed he had to cut 5 pounds, then ate too many bananas before fighting Conn

Robinson got hot flashes against Maxim

Charles Walcott and Moore were too old and small to be fighting Marciano - even though they out-weighed him and were at their career peaks.

Ray Leonard claimed he lost to Duran because he tried to brawl instead of Box (even thogh he gave up brawling early and lost the final rounds to Duran because Duran outboxed him)

Lennox Lewis quit Boxing rather than rematching Vitali because ya know that was the plan all along.... except that every in every interview heading up to the event he indicated otherwise.

Michael Brown was a promising young scholar.

Wilder lost to Fury because his suit weighed 45 pounds and Fury's glove was tampered with.



Nice to see some things never change.

Duran claimed (Leonard II) that he quit because he was about to **** his pants.

[Willie Pep 229]

https://youtu.be/k1-5ckz94HY

That was interesting; first time I watched the fight.

The obvious question: if Gans is in the tank why did he keep getting up?

You are correct the first knock down punch seems to wrap around Gans head.

The second KD at the end of round 1, along the ropes, looks to be a hard smash to the face. I wonder why the referee was looking over at Gans corner when the KD occurred?

I wonder if Gans was (distracted) looking there as well. I couldn't tell.

The first KD of the second round looked to be a clean shot to the face as well, as was the second KD of the second round, but then the rest of the KDs are a mix of hits and misses.

Gans showed little to no offence.

But again why would a tanked (crossed) fighter keep getting up. There were certainly enough clean shots that Gans could have just stayed down if he wanted to.

[elnick]

I am new hear, so please bear with me. A lot of the fighters listed here I can't see deserving. Especially Jake Lamotta. La Motta really got famous because of the movie of his life. Yes he was the first to defeat Sugar Ray Robinson, and he was shorter. But even for those fights he was heavier. Robinson was a Welterweight, Lamotta a middleweight.
No Mayweatrher really? Pacquiao is for me the greatest boxer pound for pound outside of the Americas. But you are correct about Izzard Charles. Though he never won the light heavyweight title, (except by recognition of Ohio) he was the greatest at that weight.
By weight categories, the greatest are as follows, from heavy down to fly, I have light heavy, and I even have cruiser weight. It is like this Ali, Louis, Charles, Greb, Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, eder Jofre at Batam wieght, and finally Flyweight is difficult but the greatest fighter ever to hold that title is Pacquiao.

[The plunger man]

Chisora didn't Szpilka AFTER Wilder and Special K. He was clearly on the slide.

Joshua needed 8 rounds to stop Breazy. Wilder damn near killed him.

Ortiz is big and skilled. Better than anyone prime Tyson fought. Better than anyone Ali fight pre-exile. Possibly better than Frazier. Definitely better than Norton (the xhina-chinned chump who bested Ali; breaking his jaw, no less).

Go watch what Mercer and McCall did to Lewis. Then tell me straight-faced that you give Ortiz no chance of doing thesame. 6'4", 78" reach 240 lbs. And that boy had skills. Willie Pep? No. Not at all. But he's a skilled Boxer-Puncher with a sense of fundamentals.

Really dude. You should watch more Boxing. You do yourself no favors. All those people you're parroting - they're not here to help you.

Ortiz has beaten nobody and that’s your get out of jail card GTFOH gumbo.
As I said you should be kept away from a boxing forum if you really are trying put Tyson fury on the same level as Ali or Lennox Lewis in the all time P4P list....fury is nowhere near that list and your a ****ing idiot for even trying to defend it....now get your ass up the gym and get fit gumbo

[travestyny]

https://youtu.be/k1-5ckz94HY

Thanks for the fight, bro. Will give it a watch soon!

- -Is that why Gans was swinging for the fences trying to ko McG? And had no legs left after the first knockdown?

Too bad for them we have footage of the fight. A touched-up version here on this site.

Clearly not a dive. McGovern was a beast. It's also not the only time Gans got KO'd. In fact, a lot of his success was owed to McFadden falling off.

But anyone who's fought can see McGovern creamed all over Gans. Gotta remember Gans wasn't bred for combat. Not unlike Robinson or Louis, or Beyonce, once you hurt him he quit.

Are you sureeeee....


You might have to take that up with GhostofDempsey. His panel of experts that he's been telling me are always right no matter what claim that it was a farce to the point that everyone knew the fight was thrown.

What do you think, Ghost?

Timestamped

[QueensburyRules]

Duran claimed (Leonard II) that he quit because he was about to **** his pants.

- -Very true though in the interviews the press and Duran tra later edited it as stomach cramps as I recall the media reports.

Shoulda been an immediate rematch, but Ray extracted his pound of flesh and moved on.

[QueensburyRules]

Thanks for the fight, bro.

- -U didn't watch it? Why we wanna listen to a giggle of blow up doll experts.

The fight exists irrefutably sans U blow up doll experts.

[travestyny]

- -U didn't watch it? Why we wanna listen to a giggle of blow up doll experts.

The fight exists irrefutably sans U blow up doll experts.

I never claimed to be an expert. I didn't even give my opinion on it. Literally the only thing I've seen of this fight is the punch where Gans goes down, that doesn't even look like it connected.

Since I hadn't seen the rest of the fight, I restrained from giving an opinion. Never asked anyone to listen to me, you cranky old bat.


I'll get around to watching it today.

[GhostofDempsey]

Thanks for the fight, bro. Will give it a watch soon!





Are you sureeeee....


You might have to take that up with GhostofDempsey. His panel of experts that he's been telling me are always right no matter what claim that it was a farce to the point that everyone knew the fight was thrown.

What do you think, Ghost?

Timestamped

I never said historians were never wrong, but I think most of them give their due diligence in researching history. Unless an author just has a clear bias and is strictly cheerleading the subject of his book, I think most will give an honest effort to tell all sides of it.

From one of the books I sourced in the Johnson thread:

"At the time, the two best boxers in America-unquestionably -were Joe Gans and featherweight champion Terry McGovern."28 To receive another chance at the top, Gans had to agree to "lay down" against the formidable McGovern.

After the Erne loss and then the Chicago fiasco, the newspapers crucified Gans and nearly ended his career.29 Although most historians say that McGovern was not involved, the evidence shows otherwise, and Gans took the blame for the big fix in Chicago in 1900.

The managers of the two fighters held surreptitious meetings before and after the fight.30 McGovern probably agreed to step aside and not challenge Erne for the lightweight title, and in exchange, Gans would give him a win.

"Terrible" Terry had beaten George Dixon in June of 1900, and one month after that fight, he had beaten Frank Erne - a fight for which Erne would have wanted a rematch in his title quest. McGovern would be Gans' key to Erne.

The Gans-McGovern fight would only add to McGovern's streak of wins until the end of 1901. While Gans was extremely articulate, he was stage-shy and certainly no actor for the cameras on that Friday, the 13th of December, in Chicago.

As the film indicates, his sharp offensive and defensive skills became nothing more than feeble paws at McGovern's punches until he went down in the second round. The next morning, all parties to the fight found themselves in court before the judge. While no one was jailed as a result of the fix, the fight caused such an uproar by a group of Chicago social reformers that city councilmen were pressured into banning public boxing in the Windy City, a ban that existed for over twenty years.

The First Black Boxing Champions: Essays on Fighter’s of the 1800s to the 1920s — Colleen Ay c o c k

[Willie Pep 229]

I am new hear, so please bear with me. A lot of the fighters listed here I can't see deserving. Especially Jake Lamotta. La Motta really got famous because of the movie of his life. Yes he was the first to defeat Sugar Ray Robinson, and he was shorter. But even for those fights he was heavier. Robinson was a Welterweight, Lamotta a middleweight.
No Mayweatrher really? Pacquiao is for me the greatest boxer pound for pound outside of the Americas. But you are correct about Izzard Charles. Though he never won the light heavyweight title, (except by recognition of Ohio) he was the greatest at that weight.
By weight categories, the greatest are as follows, from heavy down to fly, I have light heavy, and I even have cruiser weight. It is like this Ali, Louis, Charles, Greb, Robinson, Armstrong, Pep, eder Jofre at Batam wieght, and finally Flyweight is difficult but the greatest fighter ever to hold that title is Pacquiao.

You're new here so I want to bear with you. You need to understand there is a forum rule against ranking Filipino fighters on the ATG lists.

It's Mayweather's genetic connection, albeit distance connection, to the Philippine Islands that disqualifies him from the list. In short he has Filipino blood so he's out. Sorry.

I don't think it's fair either, but there a few really strange posters on here and they have some stange rules.