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I dont own the book so I am going by my memory of an interview with the authors, conducted by the HBO Boxing podcast. But here is some more information from the book.
Ali absorbed a higher percentage of his opponents power punches than many would have thought, even during his best years, Groves said.
In the title fights in Alis later years, Alis opponents dished out more than Ali, but because of the conventional wisdom of the time they were reluctant to dethrone a reigning champion by decision, Groves said.
"Watching Ali in the past, my eye had always been drawn to his magnetism. Here, I had to watch the opponents. And I was shocked at how often the opponents penetrated Ali's defense. Ali fancied himself an amateur magician. And in the ring, he pulled off his greatest illusion. He was able to erase the memory of his getting hit by not showing it in his facial expression and immediately striking back. Knowing how often Ali got hit, even when he was young, was surprising to me."Comment
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You've hit the nail on the head.
I think there's a tendency to use P4P listings to compensate lower weight fighters who tend to go over-looked at the expense of Heavyweights. I can understand the desire, but it's dishonest. And most of those folks aren't even that consistent in their application.
I think very highly of the lower weight fighters. Very highly. But I also know how difficult it is for the big men. A guy like Holyfield would look a helluva lot like Ray Leonard if he were a natural Welterweight... a dumber, softer-punching Ray Leonard, but much better than most men who've held the 147 pound championship that Boxing fans love sooo much. Conversely, I have to wonder, how a 190 pound version of Carmen Basilio would have done if he came of age in Holyfield's era?
When Arguello and Williams struggled enough w/ movers, weighing the same size as most kids in High School. How would they have fared if they were Heavyweights schlepping around 70 extra pounds? Would Zarate have been any better than Bowe? Would Saddler have been able to keep up the intensity that Foreman brought right out of the gate?
Again, I have wrestled, so I appreciate what guys at the lower weight classes can do. But I understand how the laws of physics apply to the human body... coordination and stamina drop off drastically as weight is increased even only moderately. That's why you see midgets as Olympic Gymnasts, but you don't see Olympic Gymnasts making the money that NFL Linemen or NBA stars make.
Sorry for another tangent. But you brought up a great point that needed to be made.Comment
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I'd rather see "midgets" like Crawford, Lomachenko or Juan Francisco Estrada perform their craft than heavyweights like Tyson Fury or Deontay Wilder.
It is what it is.Comment
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well said, but there's two problems w/ Ali that are chronically ignored:
1) It's always zero sum:
A) In the 60's he was in his prime, but his shoddy opposition is down played; while in the 70's he was post-prime and his greater opposition is discredited.
B) Ali lost to Frazier and Norton. Forget about best P4P, he often wasn't even the best of his division. Foreman destroyed both Norton and Frazier, so when Ali didn't just whoop Foreman's ass, but derailed his entire career, he sort of got more vindication than he really deserved.
Pretty simply, even true fans exaggerate Ali's dominance. He had many contemporaries who much better asserted their dominance over their respective divisions: Ortiz, Canton, Foster, Monzon, Olivares... look, I didn't even say the "D" word.
Which brings me to my second point:
2) Muhammad Ali was a stellar athlete w/ a stellar record. He also had the heart of a lion. And he brought the Heavyweight division up to speed w/ the rest of Boxing. Definitely the makings of a top 50-25 Boxer.
But you only need look at the film to see better fighters. Was Ali more of a Heavyweight Duran or a Heavyweight Camacho? That might seem hugely disrespectful considering what a twaat Camacho was, but even w/ the iron jaw and heart of a lion, Ali was closer in skill and ability to Hector Camacho than the best the Lightweight division has produced.
I think people take it too hard on Heavyweights:
- They expect them to fight just like Finito Lopez.
- They don't understand the parity that comes w/ punching power of a man that size.
- And they don't understand that men that size take a little longer to mature physically, so their careers are often more of a work in progress.
But with Ali, the best fighter he fought in the 60's was George Chuvalo. When he returned in the 70's he was often NOT the Division's best. And even on his best night, it's not hard to find 20 fighters who did it better.Comment
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I know.he was very good but his opposition was poor, he fought with guys like Briscoe, Benvenutti, Griffith, most of them clearly out of prime and olds, and smaller than him, Nápoles too, it was a crime, what Nápoles did, Monzón never wanted to do, that fight was a joke, i know Nápoles challenged him but it does not matter. Only fought in a division, took little risks.Comment
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This is false
You can't Say this, the bones of lighter weights are the reason why they are much more technical, skillfuls , fasters, dinamycs.
You can't Say "add 60 pounds to the body of Arguello".
It's what it's , period.
Heavyweight are overrated and are sh.it talking about boxing skills.
I mean, you hear "this heavyweight was a máster, and incredible technical fighter" and then you see his movements and are.pretty mediocre and normal.
Boxing is art, and the art is in the lightweights like Loma, Estrada, Pacquiao, Crawford,Comment
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