Who Could Roy Jones Not Have Beaten?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Roy took Androstenedione



There's no way to know exactly when Roy started or stopped using (if he ever did), but we know he took it in 2000 as he tested positive for the drug after his fight with Hall.



Androstenedione is a steroid produced in the adrenal glands and the gonads, which is converted in the body to testosterone.

Can be used medically to aid in the production of testosterone for individuals with hormonal problems.

Used in competition to increase muscle strength and mass and to shorten muscle recovery time.



What?



You can't test positive for a steroid and claim to be "clear". Roy Jones Jr. is a dirty fighter. He cheated at least once although probably more often.

Everything special about RJJ would've directly benefited from PED's. Strength/power, speed/reflexes, stamina...his athleticism was both God given and Man-induced.

It's funny that my "reputation" is "0" despite having all green on my profile page. The admin, WhiteWonderBreadMan, keeps me at "0" for speaking too much truth.

WhiteWonderBreadMan HATES Canelo (probably racism) and labels him a cheater although Canelo is one of the few "cheaters" who has a plausible alibi. Mexico, as a country, actually does have a problem with Clenbuterol. Like you suggested about RJJ...Canelo never tested positive before or after - the difference being Canelo does OSDT unlike RJJ who did minimal commission testing - Canelo did the hair follice test (at request of NSAC), Canelo failed test while residing in Mexico, Canelo performed as good or BETTER in the rematch with Gennady despite all drama surrounding PED's going into the fight...But WhiteWonderBreadMan has "inside sources" (probably other racists/Trump supporters) who suggest otherwise...which means zero when reviewing evidence.

Conversely WhiteWonderBreadMan L O V E S RJJ and Holyfield...both are proven cheaters. RJJ used steroids and Holyfield used Testosterone/Saizen (HGH)/Glukor (allegedly for Impotence although the man has 11 children...)

Great post. Too bad it'll be lost on him. The dude is IMPERVIOUS to facts. It's kinda scary. Kinda cute.

I feel like an adolescent can discern this truth just by watching Roy's performances. It's really unsettling that a grown man goes to such lengths to deny reality.

[Bjl12]

E a s t s I d e boxing

Thanks. Probably saw it when looking for a boxing news site to check out before finding this one, but never saw the forum. Sounds like it's even worse than Non Stop Boxing.

Might be hard to believe, but ESB is actually worse than NSB. Neither are good though.

If I had to pick it would definitely be NSB. ESB is like the Fox News of boxing discussion...they make up their own rules, facts, rewrite history, and just live in an alternate reality altogether. It's a goddamn cult lmfao

[BattlingNelson]

Roy took Androstenedione

Just to clarify. We don't know what steroid Jones took. All we know is that took a steroid.

Andro was what Jones camp said if I remember correctly so that's about as biased as it gets. Those who have the opposite agenda could with equal right say it was nandrolone or testosterone.

[robertzimmerman]

Roy took Androstenedione

There's no way to know exactly when Roy started or stopped using (if he ever did), but we know he took it in 2000 as he tested positive for the drug after his fight with Hall.

Androstenedione is a steroid produced in the adrenal glands and the gonads, which is converted in the body to testosterone.

Can be used medically to aid in the production of testosterone for individuals with hormonal problems.

Used in competition to increase muscle strength and mass and to shorten muscle recovery time.

What?

You can't test positive for a steroid and claim to be "clear". Roy Jones Jr. is a dirty fighter. He cheated at least once although probably more often.

Everything special about RJJ would've directly benefited from PED's. Strength/power, speed/reflexes, stamina...his athleticism was both God given and Man-induced.

It's funny that my "reputation" is "0" despite having all green on my profile page. The admin, WhiteWonderBreadMan, keeps me at "0" for speaking too much truth.

WhiteWonderBreadMan HATES Canelo (probably racism) and labels him a cheater although Canelo is one of the few "cheaters" who has a plausible alibi. Mexico, as a country, actually does have a problem with Clenbuterol. Like you suggested about RJJ...Canelo never tested positive before or after - the difference being Canelo does OSDT unlike RJJ who did minimal commission testing - Canelo did the hair follice test (at request of NSAC), Canelo failed test while residing in Mexico, Canelo performed as good or BETTER in the rematch with Gennady despite all drama surrounding PED's going into the fight...But WhiteWonderBreadMan has "inside sources" (probably other racists/Trump supporters) who suggest otherwise...which means zero when reviewing evidence.

Conversely WhiteWonderBreadMan L O V E S RJJ and Holyfield...both are proven cheaters. RJJ used steroids and Holyfield used Testosterone/Saizen (HGH)/Glukor (allegedly for Impotence although the man has 11 children...)

I appreciate the effort that's gone into the above, and I enjoyed reading it. But it wasn't necessary.

Even though Roy is my favourite fighter, I don't condone anybody taking PEDS. But the point is:

You cannot compare the careers of Lance Armstrong and Roy Jones.

Lance has given a candid account of exactly what he took and when.

When you're looking at Roy, it's all guesswork.

Then there's the fact that the 2 sports are obviously completely different.

Your opinions are as follows:

You think that when Lance stopped taking PEDS, he was an ordinary cyclist.

You think that when Roy stopped taking PEDS, he was an ordinary fighter.

Those are your opinions which you are obviously entitled to. But you need to address the following points:

Roy displayed those same attributes even at 17 years of age.

Despite Richard Hall being a world level fighter and having 10 x the amount in his system that Roy had, he was absolutely destroyed.

Roy never failed another test after the Hall fight, and he looked exactly the same where he easily dominated most his opponents, until he eventually lost, which was over 4 years later.

If you think that he only lost because he didn't take his PEDS, then why wouldn't he have taken them for the Tarver and Johnson fights, if you believe that he'd taken them for all of his other fights?

How can you not take into account his age, his style, and the weight loss for Tarver, (where he had to burn muscle) which was against the advice of respected sports scientist Mackie Shilstone, who states that burning muscle at an advanced age can affect the body's immune system?

How can you not take into account the demise of Chris Byrd, Antonio Tarver and Chad Dawson, who all suffered the same fate after experiencing the same situation?

[Rusty Tromboni]

I appreciate the effort that's gone into the above, and I enjoyed reading it. But it wasn't necessary.

Even though Roy is my favourite fighter, I don't condone anybody taking PEDS. But the point is:

You cannot compare the careers of Lance Armstrong and Roy Jones.

Lance has given a candid account of exactly what he took and when.

When you're looking at Roy, it's all guesswork.

Then there's the fact that the 2 sports are obviously completely different.

Your opinions are as follows:

You think that when Lance stopped taking PEDS, he was an ordinary cyclist.

You think that when Roy stopped taking PEDS, he was an ordinary fighter.

Those are your opinions which you are obviously entitled to. But you need to address the following points:

Roy displayed those same attributes even at 17 years of age.

Despite Richard Hall being a world level fighter and having 10 x the amount in his system that Roy had, he was absolutely destroyed.

Roy never failed another test after the Hall fight, and he looked exactly the same where he easily dominated most his opponents, until he eventually lost, which was over 4 years later.

If you think that he only lost because he didn't take his PEDS, then why wouldn't he have taken them for the Tarver and Johnson fights, if you believe that he'd taken them for all of his other fights?

How can you not take into account his age, his style, and the weight loss for Tarver, (where he had to burn muscle) which was against the advice of respected sports scientist Mackie Shilstone, who states that burning muscle at an advanced age can affect the body's immune system?

How can you not take into account the demise of Chris Byrd, Antonio Tarver and Chad Dawson, who all suffered the same fate after experiencing the same situation?

Damn. Talk about shameless. It's amazing how you can raise these questions hypothetically, but when they are directed to you or the answers are presented to, you're oblivious.

Let's try this again. While Roy never faced the same scrutiny as Armstrong, there was enough pressure for him to lay-off the PEDs. Again, it's possible to fighters to always find new angles to exploit - particularly if they have anonymity. But there's a direct relationship between athletes abuse of PEDs and the level of scrutiny they're under.

Jones' massive weight cut (his own fault), doesn't explain his plummet. It largely explains that one fight, but not the rest of his career. Compare it to De La Hoya's fall-off. De La Hoya fought the best in his prime: relying on genetics, hard-work, and technique for success. (I wouldn't rule out his use of PEDs; but unlike Jones, it wasn't fundamental to his success). As his dedication and physical abilities diminished, so did his success rate. But he didn't deflate. Jones' prowess completely vanished. Things that should have been there weren't. A lot of it might have been mental. We can't rule that out. But that definitely tarnishes the esteem we have for a prime Roy Jones.

It doesn't seem absurd to you that in 200 years of Boxing, a rarity like Jones appeared only in the era with the shallowest talent pool and most permissive PED use?

Seriously, your defiance of common sense and simple facts is impressive. But you really need to give self-respect a try. I really think that's what your creepy fixation with Jones is all about. It's a vicious cycle of you hating yourself, finding solace in Jones' myth, hating yourself for denying facts, finding solace in the Jones myth. You see us as the enemy, but were actually trying to help you out.

[robertzimmerman]

Rusty Tromboni,

Damn. Talk about shameless. It's amazing how you can raise these questions hypothetically, but when they are directed to you or the answers are presented to, you're oblivious.

Oh the irony.

You can't answer any questions or points that I put to you. All you can do is waffle on and insult me.

You haven't brought a damn thing to this debate.

I will gladly debate with anybody. But you don't want to debate.

Let's try this again. While Roy never faced the same scrutiny as Armstrong, there was enough pressure for him to lay-off the PEDs. Again, it's possible to fighters to always find new angles to exploit - particularly if they have anonymity. But there's a direct relationship between athletes abuse of PEDs and the level of scrutiny they're under.

Okay.

I understand that. But their circumstances were obviously very different.

Tell me when you think Roy stopped taking PEDS.

Tell me how a world class fighter was destroyed despite having TEN times the amount in his system that Roy had.

Jones' massive weight cut (his own fault), doesn't explain his plummet. It largely explains that one fight, but not the rest of his career. Compare it to De La Hoya's fall-off. De La Hoya fought the best in his prime: relying on genetics, hard-work, and technique for success. (I wouldn't rule out his use of PEDs; but unlike Jones, it wasn't fundamental to his success). As his dedication and physical abilities diminished, so did his success rate. But he didn't deflate. Jones' prowess completely vanished. Things that should have been there weren't. A lot of it might have been mental. We can't rule that out. But that definitely tarnishes the esteem we have for a prime Roy Jones.

Roy's weight loss went hand in hand with the natural ageing process.

The guy's career was built around split second timing.

He dodged punches by milliseconds.

He needed to either retire early, in his early 30's, or he needed to change his style to compensate for his age.

How hard is that for you to grasp?

He was a reflex fighter. He was 35 years old, who'd trained from being about 9 years old, who went through 5 weight classes, which included going up to HW and back.

It was always on the cards if he carried on.

You've got to be an absolute ignoramus if you think that he lost to Tarver and Johnson just because he stopped taking PEDS. And if you want to ignorantly believe that the weight loss wasn't a factor, then that's up to you. But if that's what you believe, then explain the comments that Mackie Shilstone made, and explain why 3 other modern day fighters also suffered the exact same fate.

It doesn't seem absurd to you that in 200 years of Boxing, a rarity like Jones appeared only in the era with the shallowest talent pool and most permissive PED use?

Shallowest talent pool??

Roy was a one off. He was a great athlete who was trained in an extraordinary way, under extraordinary conditions.

The way you talk about PEDS, you'd think they were something out of a Marvel film.

No PEDS can make you fight in the way that Roy did. And it's been 20 years ago now since his prime, with science evolving every year. Yet we've never seen anyone display the attributes that Roy did. So why is that?

Seriously, your defiance of common sense and simple facts is impressive. But you really need to give self-respect a try. I really think that's what your creepy fixation with Jones is all about. It's a vicious cycle of you hating yourself, finding solace in Jones' myth, hating yourself for denying facts, finding solace in the Jones myth. You see us as the enemy, but were actually trying to help you out.

Don't talk about my defiance, when you haven't even been capable of giving me a debate.

I ask you questions, yet I get nothing back.

I put points to you, yet I get nothing back.

I give you cold, hard facts, yet you just ignore them.

Again, you have offered absolutely nothing all throughout the thread.

You think you're clever with your witty little replies, but it's just to cover up the fact that you've got nothing of substance to offer. You were figured out a long time ago. It's just a defense mechanism that you use. Because the truth is:

You're out of your depth here.

You couldn't even reply to me regarding the post about Collins on the other thread. And we both know why that is. You simply don't have the knowledge of the era, and you won't admit that you were wrong. The fact that you couldn't work out that the TS has serious mental issues speaks volumes about the kind of person that you are.

[TeamElite]

HAHAHAHAHA!

Fat Robert had his endless lies and delusional nonsense proven wrong and thoroughly destroyed in the devastating Steve Collins thread with facts, reality, logic, and the most credible sources available.

He can't even reply to anything I've posted, instead he instinctively goes straight into full-on denial and simply claims (pretends) that it's me and not him who's mentally ill!!

ROFL!

How weak can you get??

He must have forgot that he actually admitted to having mental disorders over on esb.

Jesus Christ; this is akin to Charlie Zelenoff constantly parroting "you haters are delusional"

TRAGIC and HILARIOUS!

[Rusty Tromboni]

Rusty Tromboni,



Oh the irony.

You can't answer any questions or points that I put to you. All you can do is waffle on and insult me.

You haven't brought a damn thing to this debate.

I will gladly debate with anybody. But you don't want to debate.



Okay.

I understand that. But their circumstances were obviously very different.

Tell me when you think Roy stopped taking PEDS.

Tell me how a world class fighter was destroyed despite having TEN times the amount in his system that Roy had.



Roy's weight loss went hand in hand with the natural ageing process.

The guy's career was built around split second timing.

He dodged punches by milliseconds.

He needed to either retire early, in his early 30's, or he needed to change his style to compensate for his age.

How hard is that for you to grasp?

He was a reflex fighter. He was 35 years old, who'd trained from being about 9 years old, who went through 5 weight classes, which included going up to HW and back.

It was always on the cards if he carried on.

You've got to be an absolute ignoramus if you think that he lost to Tarver and Johnson just because he stopped taking PEDS. And if you want to ignorantly believe that the weight loss wasn't a factor, then that's up to you. But if that's what you believe, then explain the comments that Mackie Shilstone made, and explain why 3 other modern day fighters also suffered the exact same fate.



Shallowest talent pool??

Roy was a one off. He was a great athlete who was trained in an extraordinary way, under extraordinary conditions.

The way you talk about PEDS, you'd think they were something out of a Marvel film.

No PEDS can make you fight in the way that Roy did. And it's been 20 years ago now since his prime, with science evolving every year. Yet we've never seen anyone display the attributes that Roy did. So why is that?



Don't talk about my defiance, when you haven't even been capable of giving me a debate.

I ask you questions, yet I get nothing back.

I put points to you, yet I get nothing back.

I give you cold, hard facts, yet you just ignore them.

Again, you have offered absolutely nothing all throughout the thread.

You think you're clever with your witty little replies, but it's just to cover up the fact that you've got nothing of substance to offer. You were figured out a long time ago. It's just a defense mechanism that you use. Because the truth is:

You're out of your depth here.

You couldn't even reply to me regarding the post about Collins on the other thread. And we both know why that is. You simply don't have the knowledge of the era, and you won't admit that you were wrong. The fact that you couldn't work out that the TS has serious mental issues speaks volumes about the kind of person that you are.

I'll get around to responding to this. You've earned yourself that much.

In the meantime, yes or no, the Billy Conn who give Joe Louis fits in their first encounter beats the Roy Jones who took hopkins to a decision?

[QueensburyRules]

- -Roy took Popkins to two decisions in between a $2mil duck by Popkins.

That span of fights encompassed three different boxing eras, so which Roy are you referring to?

[robertzimmerman]

I'll get around to responding to this. You've earned yourself that much.

In the meantime, yes or no, the Billy Conn who give Joe Louis fits in their first encounter beats the Roy Jones who took hopkins to a decision?

I'd have to give that some serious thought.

That would have been a very intriguing match.