Ali revealed he knew the man who gave Liston that liniment that temp. blinded him

[johnbook]

Said he was a well known NY Mafia guy.

[OctoberRed]

Said he was a well known NY Mafia guy.

was this ever investigated fully?

[johnbook]

was this ever investigated fully?

Don't think so.

[OctoberRed]

Don't think so.

With all of the Ali books out there, someone should

[GhostofDempsey]

Marciano claimed something got in his eyes during the Walcott fight. Who knows? I don’t think Liston had anything on his gloves, especiallly since he took a dive in both fights.

[OctoberRed]

Marciano claimed something got in his eyes during the Walcott fight. Who knows? I don’t think Liston had anything on his gloves, especiallly since he took a dive in both fights.

You think he dumped both?

[johnbook]

was this ever investigated fully?

I found something. Now these guys aren't the most credible. But what they say jibes with what Ali said. The link is at the bottom.

And this turns out to be fascinating. These guys say that Frank "Blinky" Palermo was seen there. And Ali later said in my 1st post that the Mafia guy who offered him the liniment vs Liston was a top Mafia guy who he ended up seeing in Liston's corner. It may not have been publicly known then that Palermo and Mafioso Frank Carbone owned Liston.

So Ali is basically saying that Liston's own owners offered to throw the fight by giving the liniment to then Clay. The only explanation I came up with is that the odds were 8-1 Liston and they didn't think Clay had a chance to win w.o. the liniment. so they stood to make a killing by helping Clay to beat their own guy. Just my own thoughts here.

Palermo was the one who LaMotta later admitted to the Senate Committee ordered his dive vs Billy Fox.

The 2 guys note that by the time of the fight the odds changed to 2 to 1 Liston.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur7VajVUG8w

[OctoberRed]

I found something. Now these guys aren't the most credible. But what they say jibes with what Ali said. The link is at the bottom.

And this turns out to be fascinating. These guys say that Frank "Blinky" Palermo was seen there. And Ali later said in my 1st post that the Mafia guy who offered him the liniment vs Liston was a top Mafia guy who he ended up seeing in Liston's corner. It may not have been publicly known then that Palermo and Mafioso Frank Carbone owned Liston.

So Ali is basically saying that Liston's own owners offered to throw the fight by giving the liniment to then Clay. The only explanation I came up with is that the odds were 8-1 Liston and they didn't think Clay had a chance to win w.o. the liniment. so they stood to make a killing by helping Clay to beat their own guy. Just my own thoughts here.

Palermo was the one who LaMotta later admitted to the Senate Committee ordered his dive vs Billy Fox.

The 2 guys note that by the time of the fight the odds changed to 2 to 1 Liston.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur7VajVUG8w

Very good stuff.

[johnbook]

Very good stuff.

Thank you.

I don't believe what I wrote has been in any books.
The one by Kram has his lie that no one's ever seen the so-called phantom punch when some saw it then, and it and the effect it had on Liston in 2nd fight are easily seen on yt.
So books often have an agenda and it's not to tell the truth.

[_Rexy_]

"this week Angelo Dundee, Clay's legendary trainer, finally dismissed that theory. Dundee, 82, revealed: 'People said Liston put liniment on his gloves to blind Ali, but that was a crock.

'It was either Monsel's Solution (a coagulant to treat cuts that was legal at the time but is now banned) or else it was the stuff they kept rubbing on Sonny's shoulders between the rounds.'

Clay, driven hysterical by his burning eyes, wanted to pull out of the title bout."

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/liston-didnt-blind-ali-6987354.html

Also, I loved Ali in the ring, but the guy was full of **** most of the time.