Here is an illustration for the preclassical style

[billeau2]

The question is why should anyone take this guys opinion as an accurate interpretation of how bare knuckle fighters actually fought? What qualifies him as an expert concerning bare knuckle boxing? Speculation has to be educated speculation in order to have any validity. The more educated the more valid.

Did you listen to what he said? He gave a disclaimer in the beginning to the very effect of what you just said. His education is in the body and trying to recreate the technical subtleties. Its easy to look at the more obvious points of the preclassical style(s). As a fighter himself he takes those movements, utilizes them, works with them and then looks again and again. Eventually the more subtle applications come to understanding.

That is what Kata is in martial arts. It is a base text that you put into your body, that can then be worked on, reinterpreted, reworked in different formations, etc to really become intimate with the technical applications in the kata.

Thats what ALL fighters do. He is a fighter taking and using the technical vocabulary of a fighter during this period. Is it perfect knowledge? No. But it is educational. It takes time, and both physical and histporical knowledge to see this type of project through.

We have tape of how bare knuckle guys fought so we have some idea. Corbet fought in the Bare knuckle era, despite using gloves for his matches, and we have tape of that time in places.


Recreating an art is not the same as being coached/taught..but its not bad when we have source material around to verify some of the information.

[HOUDINI563]

I have very high standards. There must be a better source than some 30 something non entity in his home office.

[billeau2]

I have very high standards. There must be a better source than some 30 something non entity in his home office.

No... You are a snob who probably does not even know the physical aspects of what it takes to work with the techniques you read about. then you assert your superior position based on hyperbole. And I say that as someone who has written professionally about the subject and studied aspects of it physically including fighting in the ring, teaching for over 30 years martial arts, etc.

[HOUDINI563]

I’ve studied boxing extensively since 1970. Researched all the major hwt bouts since Corbett-Fitzsimmons. Trained in most of the major gyms in NY and Philadelphia. Watched Ali train countless times at Deer Lake. Watched Foreman, Shavers, Frazier train live in their primes. Watched all the bouts you dream about LIVE from 1970 onward. I will compare my experience and credentials against anyone anywhere.

Again there must be a better source than some unknown 30 something nobody video taping himself in his home office. If you have the experience you claim your standards are quite low.

[billeau2]

I’ve studied boxing extensively since 1970. Researched all the major hwt bouts since Corbett-Fitzsimmons. Trained in most of the major gyms in NY and Philadelphia. Watched Ali train countless times at Deer Lake. Watched Foreman, Shavers, Frazier train live in their primes. Watched all the bouts you dream about LIVE from 1970 onward. I will compare my experience and credentials against anyone anywhere.

Again there must be a better source than some unknown 30 something nobody video taping himself in his home office. If you have the experience you claim your standards are quite low.

I doubt it...Because if what you are saying is true you would have more respect for guys who invested the time and energy to do work in the field...like Ray Corso for example, whom I have never heard react like that when someone's work, in earnest is presented.

By the way you respond to posts so people know you are responding... So you are arrogant. Your arrogance blinds you. From cong****! If people like this guy did not contribute to the research and development of boxing we wouldn't have work in the field in R&D. Your also apparently low IQ....You interpret things a certain way automatically without discerning relevant information.

This guy makes no claims that you refute... he simply took his research and development to make some good points, which were explained, and NONE of which you have refuted. Idiots here just say "its bogus, its ******", people with sufficient intellect will demonstrate, explain why something is not correct. As a matter of fact I am sure this guy would welcome someone stating something like "Well your in a posing stance" like the other poster described, etc...

The difference is one is a constructive form of critiscism the other is just your ego, trying to assert itself. I bet this guy would never say something as ****** as "Liston used the same punches" and "Liston is a poor man's Louis" which are two of the ******est low IQ things I have ever heard on this site. Sounds like something Elroy would have said frankly.

So I doubt you hold the credentials you speak of. And iof you do? its a shame because you have become arrogant. I am always ready to learn something new. By all means explain the nature of a critiscism you hold... Or is your rejoinder "I have ---years experience so I know everything?"

Still waiting for a source for that Liston quote by the way.

[travestyny]

I doubt it...Because if what you are saying is true you would have more respect for guys who invested the time and energy to do work in the field...like Ray Corso for example, whom I have never heard react like that when someone's work, in earnest is presented.

By the way you respond to posts so people know you are responding... So you are arrogant. Your arrogance blinds you. From cong****! If people like this guy did not contribute to the research and development of boxing we wouldn't have work in the field in R&D. Your also apparently low IQ....You interpret things a certain way automatically without discerning relevant information.

This guy makes no claims that you refute... he simply took his research and development to make some good points, which were explained, and NONE of which you have refuted. Idiots here just say "its bogus, its ******", people with sufficient intellect will demonstrate, explain why something is not correct. As a matter of fact I am sure this guy would welcome someone stating something like "Well your in a posing stance" like the other poster described, etc...

The difference is one is a constructive form of critiscism the other is just your ego, trying to assert itself. I bet this guy would never say something as ****** as "Liston used the same punches" and "Liston is a poor man's Louis" which are two of the ******est low IQ things I have ever heard on this site. Sounds like something Elroy would have said frankly.

So I doubt you hold the credentials you speak of. And iof you do? its a shame because you have become arrogant. I am always ready to learn something new. By all means explain the nature of a critiscism you hold... Or is your rejoinder "I have ---years experience so I know everything?"

Still waiting for a source for that Liston quote by the way.

Billeau, I'm going to have to side with Houdini563 on this one, for the sole fact that you didn't know:

Houdini563 is Boxing God. He was there at the beginning when the first punch was thrown. He refereed Jacob's tussle with God...for God's sake. He volunteered to take a full on punch to the face from prime George Forman, with bicycle tape from Houdini563's own father's bicycle shop used as his wraps. And he lived! Lived to tell the story! He taught Dempsey the Dempsey Roll. Why it wasn't called the Houdini563 Roll is the only mystery there.

You will never be able to tell him anything. He knows it all. He was present for it all. If you ask him anything that he can't answer, he will either ignore it or abscond. In fact, he taught the other Houdini these tactics, which he was able to use to escape the Chinese water torture cell, and thereafter named himself after our own Houdini to pay homage. But don't let his slippery ways make you think he doesn't know. For he does know. He knows all. After all...that cataclysmic miracle known as the big **** was nothing more than Houdini563 pounding his gloves together and raising his hands Pacquiao style, and the swirl of cosmic dust that ensued created you, me, and our boxing universe. How could there have ever been boxing, without Houdini563? There couldn't have been. There simply wasn't.

Indeed, he boxed with god. He simply is Boxing God, for God's arms were found to be too short to box with Houdini563.

[billeau2]

Billeau, I'm going to have to side with Houdini563 on this one, for the sole fact that you didn't know:

Houdini563 is Boxing God. He was there at the beginning when the first punch was thrown. He refereed Jacob's tussle with God...for God's sake. He volunteered to take a full on punch to the face from prime George Forman, with bicycle tape from Houdini563's own father's bicycle shop used as his wraps. And he lived! Lived to tell the story! He taught Dempsey the Dempsey Roll. Why it wasn't called the Houdini563 Roll is the only mystery there.

You will never be able to tell him anything. He knows it all. He was present for it all. If you ask him anything that he can't answer, he will either ignore it or abscond. In fact, he taught the other Houdini these tactics, which he was able to use to escape the Chinese water torture cell, and thereafter named himself after our own Houdini to pay homage. But don't let his slippery ways make you think he doesn't know. For he does know. He knows all. After all...that cataclysmic miracle known as the big **** was nothing more than Houdini563 pounding his gloves together and raising his hands Pacquiao style, and the swirl of cosmic dust that ensued created you, me, and our boxing universe. How could there have ever been boxing, without Houdini563? There couldn't have been. There simply wasn't.

Indeed, he boxed with god. He simply is Boxing God, for God's arms were found to be too short to box with Houdini563.

lol haha. In one of those lovely twists of fate? They were speaking to a magician who was one of the top guys. he said that Houdini was not a very good magician and that Houdini was very sensative about this truth, particularly about this one card trick.

Houdini was an incredible escape artist and his skepticism was so good, in finding the mediums ploys, that he was on the original board for Scientific American...But that is not enough for a man who KNOWS it all! I s'pose.