Muhammad Ali or Joe Louis?

[butterfly1964]

Walcott springs to mind.

Also Arturo Godoy.

[Southpaw Stinger]

Also Arturo Godoy.

Yeah every fighter has them, doesn't stop them from being great. Although both fighters are great judging by opposition and ring achievements I have to say that Ali is the greater of the two.

[butterfly1964]

Yeah every fighter has them, doesn't stop them from being great. Although both fighters are great judging by opposition and ring achievements I have to say that Ali is the greater of the two.

Did you look at my Playoff Boxing thread?

[Southpaw Stinger]

Did you look at my Playoff Boxing thread?

Yeah, Ali's up after the poems and the taunts. I'm amazed it's not Liston in the final.
Head to head I think Louis is too slow and predicatable for Ali, but anyhting could happen I suppose.

[scottyRRFC]

i picked ali even though louis had more title defenses ali has went through so much in his life and he beat openents much larger and more powerful than him and he had some of the best fights ive ever seen i can't forget the thriller in manilla and rumble in the jungle

[NexBesThang]

"I am the astronaut of boxing. Joe Louis and Dempsey were just jet pilots. I am in my own world."-Muhammed Ali

[butterfly1964]

joe louis is the no. 1 heavy of all time. the only reason anyone considers ali to be the best is because he himself said it so often and he entertained people into believing that he was. the truth is that he wasnt. joe louis was the best, no matter what the polls or ali say.

This is one of the dumbest posts i've seen in a while. if someone says something without proving it, no one would believe him. People thought ali was the greatest because he proved it in the ring, not because he said it a lot.

[butterfly1964]

what historians? ali isnt the best nor is he number two. ali is the single most over rated boxer in the history of the sport.
nobody considers him to be the greatest except for people who know nothing about boxing.

I think Joe Louis is more overrated than Ali is.

First of all, Louis competition is weak to say the least. you can't even compare the people Joe Louis fought to the people that Ali fought. If Ali fought instead of Joe Louis he would be undefeated. And people like Conn or Schmeling wouldn't put him in trouble. Also people overrate Louis' performance aginst Max Schmeling, when in fact Max is overrated himself because he beat Louis the first time. Schmelings not a bum, but he would not give Ali any trouble at all. And as for the gift decisions, Louis got just as many gift decisions as ali did, and even more. JOE LOUIS RECEIVED GIFT DECISIONS IN HIS PRIME!! This is a fact. IN HIS PRIME!! Arturo godoy outboxed Louis easily in 1940 when Louis was only 26, but Louis gift got an MD. Everyone knows Godoy won that fight. All of Ali's gift decisions came after his prime, even after Manila, when he shouldn't have even been in the ring. Ali defeated 3 top ten hw's of all-time! How many top ten hw's did Louis beat? I'll answer that one for you, zero! The only top ten hw he ever fought (marciano) utterly destroyed him. Jersey Joe Walcott was Louis' biggest win. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, and Norton are all better than Walcott, and Ali defeated them all, most of them when he was past his prime, and they were in their prime.

Also, Louis' chin was "shaky" to say the least. I've never seen any fighter that was called "great" rocked as many times as Joe Louis has. More than half of the people he fought landed shots on him that buckled him knees. This includes good fighters like Walcott and Conn, and even poor fighters like Galento and Mauriello. I've never seen many people rock Ali like that, even in his pre-prime. And most of the time, if he was getting rocked, he was getting rocked by hall of fame fighters like Foreman, Liston, Frazier, and Norton, and other power punchers like SHavers, Lyle, and Bonavena. he wasn't getting stunned by 168lb fighters like Billy Conn who as a light hw had almost 60 wins, but only 16 ko's to show for it. So he had trouble knocking out light hw's, but he had little trouble almost ko'ing the "heavyweight" louis.

Ali is the better fighter. true boxing fans should know this. Ali is faster, bigger, physically stronger, and a better chin. Louis only has power and defense over him. If Walcott, Conn, and Godoy, could outbox him, then Ali definetely would. If Conn could make Louis' legs turn into Jello, then Ali would do the same, as in his prime, Muhammad's ko percentege was over 70%. To beat Ali you had to apply pressure. Louis didn't do this. He would wait for you, and that would not cut it, when you are fighting a fast-boxing heavyweight like Muhammad Ali. Movement is the key in this matchup, and ali had it. Louis didn't.

Ali tko9, ko 13, or ud15.

[butterfly1964]

ali isnt the best nor is he number two

Ali isn't even number two? Then who the heck is? Dempsey? Someone who was knocked out of the ring by a wild punching bum in Luis-Firpo? How about Marciano? Enough said. What about Jack Johnson? Johnson was great defensively and had the speed of a cat, but ali has superior speed, and Johnson's style is layed back and you need to go after ali in order to beat him, johnson didn't do this. Who else? Holmes? Holmes is a poor man's version of Ali. Holmes was lucky that Ali needed money and wasn't fifteen years younger. Who else? Nobody that's who! So before you go running off your mouth, get your facts straight.

[hemichromis]

I think Joe Louis is more overrated than Ali is.

First of all, Louis competition is weak to say the least. you can't even compare the people Joe Louis fought to the people that Ali fought. If Ali fought instead of Joe Louis he would be undefeated. And people like Conn or Schmeling wouldn't put him in trouble. Also people overrate Louis' performance aginst Max Schmeling, when in fact Max is overrated himself because he beat Louis the first time. Schmelings not a bum, but he would not give Ali any trouble at all. And as for the gift decisions, Louis got just as many gift decisions as ali did, and even more. JOE LOUIS RECEIVED GIFT DECISIONS IN HIS PRIME!! This is a fact. IN HIS PRIME!! Arturo godoy outboxed Louis easily in 1940 when Louis was only 26, but Louis gift got an MD. Everyone knows Godoy won that fight. All of Ali's gift decisions came after his prime, even after Manila, when he shouldn't have even been in the ring. Ali defeated 3 top ten hw's of all-time! How many top ten hw's did Louis beat? I'll answer that one for you, zero! The only top ten hw he ever fought (marciano) utterly destroyed him. Jersey Joe Walcott was Louis' biggest win. Liston, Foreman, Frazier, Patterson, and Norton are all better than Walcott, and Ali defeated them all, most of them when he was past his prime, and they were in their prime.

Also, Louis' chin was "shaky" to say the least. I've never seen any fighter that was called "great" rocked as many times as Joe Louis has. More than half of the people he fought landed shots on him that buckled him knees. This includes good fighters like Walcott and Conn, and even poor fighters like Galento and Mauriello. I've never seen many people rock Ali like that, even in his pre-prime. And most of the time, if he was getting rocked, he was getting rocked by hall of fame fighters like Foreman, Liston, Frazier, and Norton, and other power punchers like SHavers, Lyle, and Bonavena. he wasn't getting stunned by 168lb fighters like Billy Conn who as a light hw had almost 60 wins, but only 16 ko's to show for it. So he had trouble knocking out light hw's, but he had little trouble almost ko'ing the "heavyweight" louis.

Ali is the better fighter. true boxing fans should know this. Ali is faster, bigger, physically stronger, and a better chin. Louis only has power and defense over him. If Walcott, Conn, and Godoy, could outbox him, then Ali definetely would. If Conn could make Louis' legs turn into Jello, then Ali would do the same, as in his prime, Muhammad's ko percentege was over 70%. To beat Ali you had to apply pressure. Louis didn't do this. He would wait for you, and that would not cut it, when you are fighting a fast-boxing heavyweight like Muhammad Ali. Movement is the key in this matchup, and ali had it. Louis didn't.

Ali tko9, ko 13, or ud15.

you say louis never beat any top ten heavyweights can you name a top ten heavyweight he fought in his prime? if you count marciano then you also have count alis losses to holmes and spinks!