Michael Moorer vs Max Baer

[Bundana]

----------- Moorer (Foreman) ----- Baer (Louis)

Age --------- 26 --------------------- 26
Weight ----- 222 ------------------- 210
Height ------ 6 2 ½ ----------------- 6 2
Reach -------78 -------------------- 81 1/2
Chest (n) --- 42 1/2 ---------------- 44
Chest (e) --- 44 --------------------- 47
Biceps ------ 17 --------------------- 14 3/4
Forearm ---- 14 --------------------- 14
Waist ------- 34 --------------------- 33
Thigh ------- 26 1/2 ---------------- 18
Calf --------- 17 --------------------- 13
Neck -------- 20 --------------------- 17
Wrist --------- 8 ---------------------- 8
Fist ---------- 12 --------------------- ?
Ankle -------- 13 -------------------- 8 1/2

Chest and reach to Baer.

Weight; bicep; and neck to Moorer.

Thigh; calf; and ankle to Moorer.

I had to doubt check the "thigh" numbers but those are the recorded numbers. Either Moorer has large legs or Baer had bird legs.

P.S. I am not sure if any of this is worth anything, but if they are going to have both normal and expanded chest why not have normal and flexed biceps?

Can I ask, where you got these numbers from? Some of them look ok - but especially the leg measurements seem WAY off (for both men).

[Dempsey-Louis]

Can I ask, where you got these numbers from? Some of them look ok - but especially the leg measurements seem WAY off (for both men).

They were not easy to find and I could find no conformation for either. As stated, I as well thought the leg sizes were off.

Baer's numbers: NYTimes September 24th 1935, "Louis to Enter Yankee Stadium Ring against Baer Tonight"

Moore's numbers: LATimes, November 5th 1994, "Answers for Moorer Should Come Tonight"


NYTimes: https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/tim...4/93489430.pdf

LATimes: http://articles.latimes.com/1994-11-...michael-moorer

[Tom Cruise]

Baer was a bit of strange one. He was more talented than he often showed imo and he was a vicious puncher in his prime. He was very prone to an average uninspired performance if he wasnt in the mood. On his night he beat some good fighters, off his night he could lose to some average ones.

Im inclined to go with Baer to be honest. In his full ferocious pomp, i feel his unpredictability and raw power would get to Moorer at some stage. Especially over 15. He was very vulnerable. Excellent technical boxer, but very vulnerable.

[Tom Cruise]

Yep.

The Foreman loss was absolutely devastating to his legacy and how he is remembered

Even though it was a fight he was handily winning until disaster struck.

I dont think the Foreman loss alone is what hurts him in this matchup. He was also KD'd 6 times (stopped once) over 2 fights with Holyfield, twice vs Bert Cooper, once vs Everett Martin (havent seen that so no idea if legit Kd, Martin had lost 6 on bounce going by Brec though), KO'd in 1 vs Tua etc.

Now you can also point to fights where Baer was outboxed, Loughran, Braddock etc, and say Moorer has a great chance which he does. Its a good matchup. If both were in top form, I think Baer gets to him I really do.

[Tom Cruise]

22-0, 22KOs. 9 title defenses.

There are guys that I might rank above him at 175 but he would hold his own in the ring against any of them. He belongs in the discussion.



What was your other screen name?

Nah he isnt in discussion to be honest. LHW is one of the deepest divisions in boxing and his record is way off the top dogs.

[New England]

15 rounds is a long time. moorer was chinny. tehre's no getting around that. his lights went out very fast at HW and more than once.

other than that i'd favor him on paper. with a modern ref and 10 oz gloves moorer's boxing skills and sharpness would be a lot for HW in 1935 or 1940 to handle. FFS the man is left handed! you know how rare left handed HW are. in 1940 they'd be playing baseball . and he's fought out of the kronk gym in detroit! they guy could fight and he'd bring a lot of things to the table that baer would not have seen.

conversely, in 1935 you had a fully aritculating thumb and a 6 oz [correct me if i am wrong,] horsehair glove. you bet your ass the wrestling that you would see would be something moorer would not have seen or be able to deal with!


shading moorer, honestly. i think he's skilled enough advanced enough, and left-handed-enough, that his chinniness wouldn't matter. sharp and hard enough of a puncher, too. he'd be in danger for most of the time, but i think he kicks baer's ass and bust his face up. 6-7 rounds max[imum.]

[ShoulderRoll]

Nah he isnt in discussion to be honest. LHW is one of the deepest divisions in boxing and his record is way off the top dogs.

Moorer doesn't have the resume of someone like, say, Archie Moore.

But put him in the ring at his peak against any light heavyweight champion who ever lived...and I think he is more than a handfull for all of them.

If I'm not mistaken he's one of only 5 light heavyweight champs who went on to also capture a heavyweight title. The other four being Bob Fitzsimmons, Gene Tunney, Michael Spinks, and Roy Jones.

That by itself puts him in an exclusive club amongst 175 lbers.

[Tom Cruise]

Moorer doesn't have the resume of someone like, say, Archie Moore.

But put him in the ring at his peak against any light heavyweight champion who ever lived...and I think he is more than a handfull for all of them.

If I'm not mistaken he's one of only 5 light heavyweight champs who went on to also capture a heavyweight title. The other four being Bob Fitzsimmons, Gene Tunney, Michael Spinks, and Roy Jones.

That by itself puts him in an exclusive club amongst 175 lbers.

Eeh I mean he is a very skilled fighter. But, he could be set up, he could be countered, he was pretty vulnerable. Offensively very fluid though.

His career as a great fighter really boils down to one fight when he beat Holyfield. Let’s be real for a sec, Holyfield looked shocking that night. His body was breaking down for whatever reason and it showed. Officially the fight should also have been a draw if the KD has been scored correctly.

Other than that what did he achieve really? Good contender at LHW (historically speaking, he was not champ) some decent HW wins along with getting iced a few times as well. Compared to the likes of Charles, Moore, Tunney, Greb, Johnson, Roy Jones? How are we supposed to compare him to those guys with so little evidence to go on? Especially at LHW.

Sorry mate, not sure about this one.

[Zaroku]

Shoulder Roll's argument regarding a Kronk trained fighter against a technically limited Baer holds the best argument.

If Moore could stand in front of Foreman (until he didn't) he should be able to out box Baer more often than not.

Moore's technical sophistication wins every fight that goes to the score cards, occasionally a big Baer right hand will catch Moore's dimple (as Foreman did) and it will be Baer by KO --- but still bet Moore by UD.

Baer would be punching down, I believe... the roll can’t roll like that...

[HOUDINI563]

A focused Baer was a very tough and dangerous opponent and a true hwt. Moore’s was at best a so-so hwt and really a blown up lt hwt. Baer the night he beat Schmeling ices Moorer.