Marciano unbeatable?

[HOUDINI563]

Wrong. Obviously. Time the video of the fight. The entire fight including each minute between rounds is recorded for posterity. I used my watch and I measured 64 seconds in total. Suggest you do the same. Alis glove was not changed and the next round pretty much started on time. It's one thing to speculate regarding bouts that were not recorded but quite another with bouts that are readily available for all to see. There was NO extended period for Ali to rest during that bout.

[Dempsey-Louis]

I don't see the the controversy, what am I missing?

HOUDINI's posted article explains how and why the legend got made, and this video makes it obvious there was no real delay; put it on the factoid list.

Counting Down the Ali - Cooper Fight: https://www.bbc.com/news/16985467

[QueensburyRules]

--- The controversy for the uninformed was that existent video had obviously been Spliced in the moment of controversy.

The beeb denied having the video in their archives, and then decades later came out with a supposed unedited radio broadcast that showed the rest period to be a minute plus 6-8 seconds.

At this point outlaw vid is unreliable and the beeb has yet to do squat as far as transparency in their findings.

In short, Buyer beware...

[travestyny]

--- The controversy for the uninformed was that existent video had obviously been Spliced in the moment of controversy.

The beeb denied having the video in their archives, and then decades later came out with a supposed unedited radio broadcast that showed the rest period to be a minute plus 6-8 seconds.

At this point outlaw vid is unreliable and the beeb has yet to do squat as far as transparency in their findings.

In short, Buyer beware...

The video is right above your post. Where the hell would they splice that video, which is also linked up with the audio???

You are clearly wrong about this.

[HOUDINI563]

BS. They timed the radio broadcast of the fight! 66 seconds.

[////]

In the boxing of his day he was an excellent fighter who could trade and trade and trade in the danger range while his opponent broke down. In modern boxing I don't think he would do very well. The evolution of officiating & judging would make it hard for him to force his opponents to take risks when it's so easy to just take a breather with a jog or clinch & not really pay for it. I think ht would drop decisions left & right.

I don't consider Marciano Dempsey Frazier etc heavyweights. When I talk about them against modern opposition I'm always thinking 175/200. Even Ali was just a cruiser in his youth and a fat cruiser near retirement.

[Joe Beamish]

In the boxing of his day he was an excellent fighter who could trade and trade and trade in the danger range while his opponent broke down. In modern boxing I don't think he would do very well. The evolution of officiating & judging would make it hard for him to force his opponents to take risks when it's so easy to just take a breather with a jog or clinch & not really pay for it. I think ht would drop decisions left & right.

I don't consider Marciano Dempsey Frazier etc heavyweights. When I talk about them against modern opposition I'm always thinking 175/200. Even Ali was just a cruiser in his youth and a fat cruiser near retirement.

Agreed; this is why when comparing fighters from radically different eras, you must specify what rules, gloves, ring dimensions, etc. the two combatants will be fighting under.

Don't agree with "evolution", though. The judging is different today, but not necessarily evolved or better. Just saying.

[The Old LefHook]

Parameters & Conventions of Mythical Matchups

Agreed; this is why when comparing fighters from radically different eras, you must specify what rules, gloves, ring dimensions, etc. the two combatants will be fighting under.

Don't agree with "evolution", though. The judging is different today, but not necessarily evolved or better. Just saying.

Unless otherwise specified, I have found the best rule to proceed by in the general case is to fight under the older cultural norms and with the equipment of the fighter from the era farthest removed from the present of the two.

This prevents excuses should the more modern fighter prevail, such as the watered down, sissied down newer rules gave the fight to the modern guy, that was all. That excuse. And that is yet another reason for the 18 foot ring. We need them to fight, not have a track meet. Even a big heavyweight still has room to move in that size ring, but he must fight, too.

* * * * *

All right lads, this is a list that will have to be built slowly and carefully. Let me see if I can get something like a bottom 5 or 10 first that I am fairly comfortable with.

Hmmmm, I am in the wrong thread, aren't I. Let me transfer this out of here.

[HOUDINI563]

Today's hwts can't fight. It's a highly diluted mess out there. Ali certainly would easily beat one shot ponies like Wilder with ease. One needs to be able to separate size from ability. ATG hwts are ATG for a reason. They exhibit qualities the far exceed the average fighter.....heart, will to win, killer instinct, determination to continue to fight no matter what. These intrinsic qualities cannot be taught.

[Joe Beamish]

Unless otherwise specified, I have found the best rule to proceed by in the general case is to fight under the older cultural norms and with the equipment of the fighter from the era farthest removed from the present of the two.

This prevents excuses should the more modern fighter prevail, such as the watered down, sissied down newer rules gave the fight to the modern guy, that was all....

Not a bad thought. So many differences, though!

Such as how often the old guys fought.

They woke up at 4am, fueled their morning wiht whiskey and cigarettes, traveled 20 miles on a mule, fought 30 rounds, ate a lunch of boiled beef and cabbage, washed down with dirt and water, and rode another 20 miles and fought somebody else for another 30 rounds. Like every day.

Different EVERYTHING. How do you match up Joe Gans (or Barbados Joe Walcott) with Floyd Mayweather?

Confuses me to death.