Why Does Jack Johnson Get a Pass on Opposition while Marciano Does Not?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Like I said, I think you are confusing what they meant. He was a light heavy fighting for the heavy. I think you are agreeing with the point they are trying to make, but disagreeing on the definition of "blown up." I have no problem with that.



I just posted you a quotation that says he indeed did retire. Said he retired in 1920 to sell cars and came back to fight Dempsey after the business tanked. So now that's two separate sources that say you are wrong.



Well, another source also mentions this, and I've seen it referred to as the greatest biography on Dempsey ever written. It might have even been you that posted information from this book here in the past, but I don't know for sure. I don't really have an interest in going back to check that right now. But check this out:



Jack Dempsey: The Manassa Mauler by Randy Roberts



Told you to relax yourself.

http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingne...ennan1920.html

DAILY BENNINGTON BANNER
DECEMBER 15, 1920
JACK DEMPSEY vs BILL BRENNAN

DEMPSEY BEATS
BILL BRENNAN IN
TWELFTH ROUND Punch to Heart Finally Puts
Out Challenger 14,000 SAW BIG BATTLE Brennan at All Times Was Outfought
but Held on and Endured
Punishment

_ Madison Square Garden, New York.
_ Jack Dempsey, the world's heavy-
weight champion, knocked out Bill
Brennan of Chicago in the twelfth
round of the first heavyweight champ-
ionship fight staged last night in New
York since the Walker law became
operative.
_ There were many opinions express-
ed by fistic fans as to Dempsey's in-
ability to quickly finish his opponent.
When Dempsey did not cut loose, how-
ever, he made a quick job of it, but it
was not until after Brennan had
shown that he was absolutely un-
afraid of the champion's punches and
had split Dempsey's left ear with a
right hook.
_ The champion proved to be Bren-
nan's master in nearly every stage of
the bout, but the challenger withstood
many hard blows in the ribs due to
his magnificent physical condition.
_ Tex Richard read a telegram from
Jess Willard former title holder, say-
ing that he would meet the winner of
the Dempsey-Brennan fight.
_ A steady stream of ticket holders
poured in each entrance of Madison
Square Garden as soon as the doors
were opened at 7 o'clock and one hour
later nearly every seat was filled. It
was estimated that 14,000 persons
were present and that the receipts
would reach $200,000.
_ The management announced that
Dempsey's share of the purse was
$100,000. It is understood that Bren-
nan will receive $35,000.

I tried to warn you man. You wouldn't listen.

[travestyny]

http://www.eugenecarsey.com/boxingne...ennan1920.html



I tried to warn you man. You wouldn't listen.

This is the same thing you just posted. What is that supposed to prove?

[Dempsey-Louis]

LOl. I do think that must have made for quite a show. Would have loved to be a fly on the wall for that one.

Bet he wouldn’t say that if Wills were there!!!

Lol. Just fcvkin with you bro!

Wills was expected to testify but didn't. (It said he was not there.) Dempsey was shouting back and forth with Wills' manager Paddy Mullins; interrupting the testimony. It looks like the case was chaotic and unraveling.

But I stand on 'the quote' Dempsey called Wills out, why didn't Wills stand up? [wink]

[travestyny]

You're completely ducking everything else and inserting what YOU think THEY mean't. The fact still remains that what they said was OBJECTIVELY false. Carpentier did not nearly floor Dempsey, Carpentier did not gas in the 4th round. That's objectively false what they're saying. You can't get around it. I want you to admit that they blatantly lied.

How am I ducking anything? Your are desperately trying to cling with a definition for blown up. He was a light heavy fighting at heavy. That's their entire point.

You're source is lying yet again!

1920-06-11 Jack Moran Nicollet Park, Minneapolis

Did this fight happen or not?? According to your source it didn't!

The source didn't say that fight didn't happen, so how is it lying. It said he came out of retirement in 1920 for the pay day. Why are you ducking this:

Miske shrugged off the advice, but in 1920 he retired and began selling cars.
'Get Me a Fight Anyway'

Within five months, his business had lost $55,000. Miske needed money. Guaranteed $25,000, he fought Jack Dempsey for the heavyweight title in Benton Harbor, Mich., on Labor Day.

The source said he retired. Check. The source said he came back to fight Dempsey for a payday. Check. It never stated anything about who else he fought. He was retied in 1920 and he came back for a payday. Even Dempsey mentioned he didn't seem like himself and you even admit he was sick. So the source seems accurate.

Do you honestly think that a guy who NEVER saw the Brennan fight fully nor was he even BORN when Dempsey was an active fighter is more credible than newspapermen that saw the fight live?

So a newspaperman can't have a different opinion? Really?

So far the ONLY sources that you have provided that say Brennan was up on the scorecards are a 1964 article and a crappy book written by a now nothing who wasn't even alive when Dempsey was fighting.

I think I just obliterated whatever credibility you had on the topic.

The fact of the matter is that's two sources that align with each other, which shows this was not about a conspiracy to portray Dempsey in a bad light. You should read that book on Dempsey. If you were a real fan, you would have read it already!

[travestyny]

Wills was expected to testify but didn't. (It said he was not there.) Dempsey was shouting back and forth with Wills' manager Paddy Mullins; interrupting the testimony. It looks like the case was chaotic and unraveling.

But I stand on 'the quote' Dempsey called Wills out, why didn't Wills stand up? [wink]

He tried to stand up, but he had trouble gripping his old cane [wink] :P

[Mr.MojoRisin']

This is the same thing you just posted. What is that supposed to prove?

Check the headlines. "Brennan at all times was outfought but held on and endured punishment"

[travestyny]

Check the headlines. "Brennan at all times was outfought but held on and endured punishment"

Ok. Now you check some headlines.

One source noted that Dempsey was "Brennan's master in every stage".[15][16][17] However, the New York Times reminded their audience the bout was "one of the most vicious and closely-contested fights in history." and it occurred before a sellout crowd of nearly 17,000[2][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Brennan_(boxer)

So that also brings the New York Times into it. Just stop already.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

How am I ducking anything? Your are desperately trying to cling with a definition for blown up. He was a light heavy fighting at heavy. That's their entire point.

You're completely avoiding everything else. Carpentier did NOT almost floor Dempsey. Carpentier did not gas. Admit it.

The source didn't say that fight didn't happen, so how is it lying. It said he came out of retirement in 1920 for the pay day. Why are you ducking this:



The source said he retired. Check. The source said he came back to fight Dempsey for a payday. Check. It never stated anything about who else he fought. He was retied in 1920 and he came back for a payday. Even Dempsey mentioned he didn't seem like himself and you even admit he was sick. So the source seems accurate.

No. That's false. He did NOT come out of retirement just to fight Dempsey. As already stated multiple times he fought someone 3 months prior to Dempsey. He went on to fight a 20 fight win streak beating top contenders after the Dempsey fight.

So a newspaperman can't have a different opinion? Really?

The opinion of people that were PHYSICALLY THERE is more valuable than those there weren't. Do I really have to explain this? Dempsey says nothing in his autobiography about being down on points nor Rickard saying anything to him about being down on points. Your sources are telling falsehoods.

The fact of the matter is that's two sources that align with each other, which shows this was not about a conspiracy to portray Dempsey in a bad light. You should read that book on Dempsey. If you were a real fan, you would have read it already!

That's not "two sources" one of those "sources" is a SECONDARY source by people who weren't there written over 40 years after the fact. The other "source" is obviously a simple regurgitation of the lies. I could literally write a book saying that Dempsey was a serial killer and make up a bunch of junk. Would it make it true if it got published?? Of course not.

My two PRIMARY sources beat your secondary and tertiary sources every day of the week. Yours can't even be called sources at this point because they've been disproven over and over.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

So that also brings the New York Times into it. Just stop already.

Lmao that doesn't change anything. If anything it supports me!

[Dempsey-Louis]

Excuse me for going off topic: I did not know Dempsey won the Brennan fight with body shots. Didn't think of Dempsey as a body puncher.

Here is a slightly different account of the KO; there is no final 'right hand to the head' mentioned, as there is in the biography, just the body attack.

From the NY Times December 15th, 1920