Why Does Jack Johnson Get a Pass on Opposition while Marciano Does Not?

[Mr.MojoRisin']

That's a crazy story. He blamed Wills because the crowd booed him? That seems rather silly to me honestly.

Anyway, here is proof of what I was talking about. Dempsey traveled to New York to fight Joe Bonds. Joe Jeannette traveled there to fight some other dude. Both his and Dempsey's opponents were no-shows. While Dempsey was in the ring waiting for Joe Bonds and found out he was a no-show, Jeannette then got into the ring and said that he would replace Dempsey's opponent since his opponent was also a no-show, but Dempsey refused and left the ring. It has been speculated that it may have been a set up to force Dempsey to fight Jeannette, but even if it were, we see that Dempsey still traveled all the way to NY for a fight and when accosted by Jeannette, he refused.

I've seen the story mentioned a few places. Here it is in Randy Robert's book: Jack Dempsey: The Manassa Mauler, which I've seen called the greatest book ever written about Dempsey.

https://books.google.co.kr/books?id=...page&q&f=false

This was in 1918, and there are various newspaper articles online that mention it. There were also various newspaper articles where Dempsey declares specifically that he was drawing the color line. Here is a newspaper article where he had drawn the color line and refused Wills as far back as 1921.

I'm not just making stuff up. And sorry, I saw that fool interject Dempsey into it. I know this is about Jack Johnson.

Dempsey fought a lot of exhibitions for the war effort. You probably don't know this but that's what most likely the fight with Joe Bonds was supposed to be. An exhibition. Not a real bout for anything. Jeanette was really there to fight. That would have been ****** for Dempsey to take a risk like that. Also, that took place in Philadelphia. Not New York.

If Anthony Joshua said he would fight an exhibition for the war effort and when he gets there he sees Deontay Wilder primed and ready to fight 100% instead of some journeyman that he was told he would be fighting, would you say he got ran out of the joint if he rejected the fight? That's ludicrous.

Just because it was 1918 doesn't mean Dempsey has to fight anyone, anywhere, be it a bar or on the curb or else it's a duck. Dempsey had a contract with Kearns. I'm sure going off fighting guys that Kearns did not arrange would be a violation of that contract.

Sounds like the newspaper article is taking things out of context. Dempsey was responding to claims of fighting Jack Johnson, who the public hated. Literally. He didn't turn into this lovable public figure after he lost the championship, he was hated beyond belief and nobody wanted another black heavyweight champion. It was only 6 years previously that Johnson had held the title, the bad taste was still in people's mouths and fresh in their memories.

At that time in American history the public was racist af. Colored was considered the non-racist polite term. If Dempsey had a real disdain for black folks he would have said 'negro'.

Dempsey was a nice guy who was trying to not be hated by boxing fans but also treat black people like humans. You're taking what he said out of context of the time period and twisting his words around. Frankly, it's disgusting and shows a lot about your character.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

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But I don't want to come off as a jerk regarding Dempsey. In fairness to him, he did fight one black guy in 1916. The dude broke three of Dempsey's ribs and Dempsey received a gift draw, which most thought he lost. Actually, even Dempsey thought he lost. He was a good man to admit that much.

I see, you're just ignorant entirely to Dempsey. He fought another black fighter named Boston Bearcat. Flattened him in the first. Langford couldn't so much as put a dent in him.

It wasn't a "gift draw, which most thought he lost" if anything most thought he won the fight. This is a fight between a pre-prime Dempsey who hadn't really developed his left hook and the most ducked black heavyweight in New York City.

Some thought he won, some though he lost, some thought it was a draw. Whatever it was it was clearly a close fight. Go ahead and get the myth that Johnson licked Dempsey in a majority one sided fight out of your head.

[GhostofDempsey]

Dempsey fought a lot of exhibitions for the war effort. You probably don't know this but that's what most likely the fight with Joe Bonds was supposed to be. An exhibition. Not a real bout for anything. Jeanette was really there to fight. That would have been ****** for Dempsey to take a risk like that. Also, that took place in Philadelphia. Not New York.

If Anthony Joshua said he would fight an exhibition for the war effort and when he gets there he sees Deontay Wilder primed and ready to fight 100% instead of some journeyman that he was told he would be fighting, would you say he got ran out of the joint if he rejected the fight? That's ludicrous.

Just because it was 1918 doesn't mean Dempsey has to fight anyone, anywhere, be it a bar or on the curb or else it's a duck. Dempsey had a contract with Kearns. I'm sure going off fighting guys that Kearns did not arrange would be a violation of that contract.

Sounds like the newspaper article is taking things out of context. Dempsey was responding to claims of fighting Jack Johnson, who the public hated. Literally. He didn't turn into this lovable public figure after he lost the championship, he was hated beyond belief and nobody wanted another black heavyweight champion. It was only 6 years previously that Johnson had held the title, the bad taste was still in people's mouths and fresh in their memories.

At that time in American history the public was racist af. Colored was considered the non-racist polite term. If Dempsey had a real disdain for black folks he would have said 'negro'.

Dempsey was a nice guy who was trying to not be hated by boxing fans but also treat black people like humans. You're taking what he said out of context of the time period and twisting his words around. Frankly, it's disgusting and shows a lot about your character.

Again this clown quotes the same old article with no writer or author credit. Just an anonymous hit piece. Typical. He is all shook because Johnson was overrated.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Again this clown quotes the same old article with no writer or author credit. Just an anonymous hit piece. Typical. He is all shook because Johnson was overrated.

I don't know what it is about Dempsey but everywhere I go he gets unjust hatred.

I think it's just an ignorance to history. These guys find one dodgy news article and think that's the end all be all. That's not how history works. That's why we read several sources to determine who won a no-decision bout. Because there could be two articles on the same fight but one guy says fighter A got whooped while the other says fighter B shut him out.

[ShoulderRoll]

Nope.

Johnson fought McVea when he had less than ten fights, that's easy work. Jeannette had less than ten when they first fought too.

Johnson fought McVea several times and Lanford once, they were three weight classes smaller than him when they fought. Would you give any other fighter in history a pass for fighting much smaller and at times less experienced fighters on a regular basis?

Dempsey agreed to fight Wills but the money didn't come through.

The point is that Jack Johnson fought McVea, Jeannette, and Langford.

Jack Dempsey never did.

I am a huge Dempsey fan but facts are facts.

[GhostofDempsey]

The point is that Jack Johnson fought McVea, Jeannette, and Langford.

Jack Dempsey never did.

I am a huge Dempsey fan but facts are facts.

But he fought them when they were green. McVea and Jeannette each had less than ten fights. Last time Johnson fought Jeannette he was 10-10-1 and they fought to a draw. Would anyone celebrate that sort of performance for any HW from Louis all the way to Wlad, Wilder or Joshua? Wlad would be absolutely destroyed on the forums if he fought to a draw in his prime versus a 10-10-1 fighter, especially if he fought him 6x prior.

Compare Johnson's last 20 opponents to Dempsey's and you'll see a wide disparity in quality of opposition.

[Dempsey-Louis]

Dempsey flipped-flopped so often on this issue that I could post a half dozen claims both ways.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

The point is that Jack Johnson fought McVea, Jeannette, and Langford.

Jack Dempsey never did.

I am a huge Dempsey fan but facts are facts.

So what? Johnson might as well have fought some random journeymen from nowhere. That's about how good McVea and Jeannette were in those stages. Langford only weighed 156 lbs, didn't even reach the MIDDLEWEIGHT limit.

[travestyny]

I see, you're just ignorant entirely to Dempsey. He fought another black fighter named Boston Bearcat. Flattened him in the first. Langford couldn't so much as put a dent in him.

It wasn't a "gift draw, which most thought he lost" if anything most thought he won the fight. This is a fight between a pre-prime Dempsey who hadn't really developed his left hook and the most ducked black heavyweight in New York City.

Some thought he won, some though he lost, some thought it was a draw. Whatever it was it was clearly a close fight. Go ahead and get the myth that Johnson licked Dempsey in a majority one sided fight out of your head.

Look how many excuses you just made


1. The fight wasn't in Philly. What I posted clearly says that the fight was in New York. And I posted that it was to be a 6 round exhibition. Just because you're triggered that he didn't want anything to do with Jeanette, don't blame me for that shlt. I showed the proof and I can show more proof via newspapers.

2. So you found that he fought another black guy. Great. The dud (intended spelling) had an 0-4 record. Dempsey fought him during his very first fight. Cong**** on correcting me about that.

3. Did he fight a black guy since the dude broke three of his ribs? NOPE.

4. Seems like most thought he lost that draw to me...

The headline in the New York Sun read: Johnson Outpoints Dempsey and Local Boxer Has Easy Time Beating Salt Lake City Lad.

One New York newspaper gave this report in a one-inch story: "John Lester Johnson outpointed Jack Dempsey in the Harlem Sporting Club last night. Dempsey failed to live up to the reputation that he earned in Salt Lake City, and was an easy mark for the local boxer."

Another newspaper reported: "Neither boxer was ever in danger, but at the finish Johnson was very tired from the heavy punishment he received in the mid-section and around the head."

The New York World called the fight "a fast ten-round draw."

The New York Tribune reported: "John Lester Johnson won over Jack Dempsey."

The Salt lake Tribune reported: "Jack Dempsey, the Salt Lake heavyweight, who has been causing such a stir among New York fans since he left here recently, last night won by a big shade over John Lester Johnson, one of the toughest negro fighters in New York. In their ten-round bout before the Harlem Sporting club, according to a telegram received by Dempsey's manager, Jack Price."

In his book A Flame of Pure Fire: Jack Dempsey and the Roaring '20s, Roger Kahn writes: "The consensus of sportswriters gave a big hand to Dempsey's courage and a narrow decision to Johnson."

The last one I put in blue, because I agree that it could have been hometowns just choosing their guy. But hey, don't take my word for it. Take Dempsey's

He just lifted my right arm up high and then soaked me in the ribs. He broke three of 'em for me. He hit me on the chin in that round, too, and I saw many a star. He knew too much for me. ... I thought he licked me.
http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Ja...Lester_Johnson

[travestyny]

Sounds like the newspaper article is taking things out of context. Dempsey was responding to claims of fighting Jack Johnson, who the public hated. Literally. He didn't turn into this lovable public figure after he lost the championship, he was hated beyond belief and nobody wanted another black heavyweight champion. It was only 6 years previously that Johnson had held the title, the bad taste was still in people's mouths and fresh in their memories.

At that time in American history the public was racist af. Colored was considered the non-racist polite term. If Dempsey had a real disdain for black folks he would have said 'negro'.

Dempsey was a nice guy who was trying to not be hated by boxing fans but also treat black people like humans. You're taking what he said out of context of the time period and twisting his words around. Frankly, it's disgusting and shows a lot about your character.

When did I twist around anyone's words? Did I ever say he hated black fighters? Go ahead and quote me on that.

You got triggered so badly that you're seeing things that weren't there

And no, once again you failed to read properly and you got it wrong, just like you tried to correct me saying that he ducked Joe Jeannette in Philly. It was New York. The quotation did NOT say he was only saying he wouldn't fight Jack Johnson. It clearly says that he is drawing the color line. The ****ing quotation says "I will never fight a colored man." What part of that made you get this wrong?


Calm your ass down, take a breath, and read what was written carefully.