Retired as Champ?

[ShoulderRoll]

Above middleweight has to go to the Klitschko's for their sheer dominance for as long as they dominated regardless of the level of talent there. Beyond the super six Ward had one truly notable opponent who's greatness is still very much under question.

How do you make an excuse about the level of talent available to the Klitschkos then go on to question Andre Ward's opposition?

[turnedup]

How do you make an excuse about the level of talent available to the Klitschkos then go on to question Andre Ward's opposition?

Because at heavyweight your life can be altered with one punch, it's why HW despite it's talent pool has always been able to draw. When you have two men of that sheer size a slight miscalculation could lead to you eating through tubes the rest of your life. If we are comparing weak divisions or talent pool I think the one where the higher risk of life alteration takes the prize in "who'd you rather." Win or lose Vitali fought Lennox Lewis which in my opinion is a better opponent than anything on Ward's resume. Not taking anything away from Ward, he was an original naturally gifted fighter but if I had to pick between 168 and 200 plus pound opposition i'm going to side with the bigger risk.

[Anthony342]

True about the dominance, but my point is skill wise, Ward was better.

[The Old LefHook]

For me no. And that goes for Ward as well. I reserve the tag ATG for the select few, but that is purely a matter of your own personal preference/definition.

This is an excellent custom.

[chrisJS]

Vicente Saldivar retired as the undisputed champ at the age of 24 at the peak of his powers. Of course he came back a few years later and did great again but he did retire as the undisputed champion.

[OctoberRed]

Ricardo Lopez and Lewis are first two to come to mind, along with Calazaghe. Froch retired as champion I believe.

[Anthony342]

Vicente Saldivar retired as the undisputed champ at the age of 24 at the peak of his powers. Of course he came back a few years later and did great again but he did retire as the undisputed champion.

Yeah, but I mean as in retired for good, so since he came back and wasn't champ after his very last fight, I can't count him. I looked at his record though, pretty damn good dominance.

[Anthony342]

Yeah we could count Froch, since he seemed to be The Guy at super middle after Ward moved up.

[OctoberRed]

Yeah we could count Froch, since he seemed to be The Guy at super middle after Ward moved up.

He pretty much beat everyone left... groves, abraham, kessler, johnson, taylor. He left as degale was his mandatory, but likely would have beaten degale.

[chrisJS]

Yeah, but I mean as in retired for good, so since he came back and wasn't champ after his very last fight, I can't count him. I looked at his record though, pretty damn good dominance.

Yeah, he was great. Three wins over Winstone and wins over a young Laguna and Sugar Ramos. Then he came back and got wins over Legra and the underrated Famechon.

Saldivar was a great fighter and perhaps overlooked in the list of great Mexican fighters.