Great British Middleweights

[Humean]

Sibson was very strong, physically, but not nearly as fast and mobile as Saunders. I would take Billy Joe to win on points.

I tend to agree, I also don't think Sibson was a particularly intelligent fighter, used a lot of brute force to get his success. What about Saunders compared to Finnegan and Minter? Two more British middleweights to compare with Saunders and others would be Herol Graham and Terry Downes.

Turpin did defeat Robinson and that's a feather in any ones cap.
Remember that Sugarman fought 7 fights from 5/21 thru
7/10 during his European "vacation". Never trained a day in Europe just played golf every day all day. Played cards at night along with dancing in the clubs.

No excuse to drop a decision to Turpin who was a solid fighter but remember 2 months later Sugar KO'd Turpin in NYC.

I'll take Turpin over Saunders until Saunders steps up and takes on Jacobs or GGG. The fights will be boring he's gone run run........and run some more.

Ray

Robinson had plenty difficulties with Turpin in the rematch too before he was able to finish him. Robinson did have a weakness for being roughed up which brings me to Turpin-Saunders. With 1950s refs Turpin would do better against Saunders than he would with the refs of today

[Bundana]

I tend to agree, I also don't think Sibson was a particularly intelligent fighter, used a lot of brute force to get his success. What about Saunders compared to Finnegan and Minter? Two more British middleweights to compare with Saunders and others would be Herol Graham and Terry Downes.

From the film I've seen of Downes, I don't think he'd be able to "hang" with Saunders. He looks rather amateurish to me!

Finnegan was ultra-tough but not clever enough (and didn't punch hard enough) to seriously trouble him, imo. If Minter's eyebrows hold up, he will probably go the distance, but lose on points.

Of the 4 you mention, I feel Graham would be by far the most difficult opponent for Saunders. Very quick and slick and difficult to pin down. Jackson of course managed to bomb him out with just one shot, but Billy joe is nowhere near the puncher Jackson was (but then again who is?)... so a fight between him and Graham would probably go to the cards. I wouldn't like to pick a winner... but if I had to, I think I may actually lean slightly towards a close points win for Graham.

[Ray Corso]

"Robinson did have a weakness for being roughed up"

I've heard some pretty ****** garbage on this site but this tripe is just that, tripe.

I guy who fought pro for 25 years against the best fighters from 147 through 160 and was the number one man in the history of the sport, never KO'd in 200 bouts! Retired with heat exhaustion against the Light Heavyweight champ while ahead comfortable on all three cards.

....."but he could be roughed up"......................

Ray

[baya]

Salido is WAAAAY better than Lemieux.

this i cannot dispute.

[Humean]

From the film I've seen of Downes, I don't think he'd be able to "hang" with Saunders. He looks rather amateurish to me!

Finnegan was ultra-tough but not clever enough (and didn't punch hard enough) to seriously trouble him, imo. If Minter's eyebrows hold up, he will probably go the distance, but lose on points.

Of the 4 you mention, I feel Graham would be by far the most difficult opponent for Saunders. Very quick and slick and difficult to pin down. Jackson of course managed to bomb him out with just one shot, but Billy joe is nowhere near the puncher Jackson was (but then again who is?)... so a fight between him and Graham would probably go to the cards. I wouldn't like to pick a winner... but if I had to, I think I may actually lean slightly towards a close points win for Graham.

I've never been impressed by Downes either. I think i'd favour Graham over Saunders too, he had so much class and talk about having 'quality' losses (Kalambay, McCallum, Jackson), some fighters get the right fight at the right time but Graham never seemed to.

"Robinson did have a weakness for being roughed up"

I've heard some pretty ****** garbage on this site but this tripe is just that, tripe.

I guy who fought pro for 25 years against the best fighters from 147 through 160 and was the number one man in the history of the sport, never KO'd in 200 bouts! Retired with heat exhaustion against the Light Heavyweight champ while ahead comfortable on all three cards.

....."but he could be roughed up"......................

Ray

Sorry I forgot Robinson was perfect. Turpin roughed him up in the their two fights did he not? That's how he had so much success against Robinson, it certainly wasn't from great boxing ability.

His first loss wasn't to a boxer was it? LaMotta gave him trouble in more than one fight.

Robinson won a heavily disputed decision against Georgie Abrams in a brawling fight. Abrams was a rough fighter.

Did Basilio and Fullmer defeat him by fighting cute?

Then there is the Ralph Jones defeat: "Time and again, Tiger drove Robinson into the ropes and mauled him pitifully." http://boxrec.com/media/index.php/Su...s._Ralph_Jones

Tripe would be when you once described Ken Buchanan's career as involving home-cooking, a fighter who had 69 professional fights and not once fought in his home-town and fought all his European and World title fights abroad!

[OctoberRed]

Now that I think about it, outside of the UK and the US, not too many countries had a lot of top middleweights.... if any at all.

[Humean]

Now that I think about it, outside of the UK and the US, not too many countries had a lot of top middleweights.... if any at all.

France have had Carpentier, Thil, Cerdan, Villemain, Humez, Dauthuille, Langois, Bouttier, Tonna, Cherifi, N'Dam


What about Howard Eastman compared to Finnegan?

[billeau2]

The last time the Brits had a lot of middle weights, they were fighting the irish back and fourth between Middle and heavy weight classes... Primarily during the bare knuckles area. Ditto for a lot of the talented colored fighters who would fight up or down like the original joe Walcott "barbados Joe" a lightweight who managed to fight heavyweights at select times!

It is also interesting that in a lot of the world the middle weights are the big boys...that situation persists in Thai Boxing to this day and in many cultures that bring fighters out of the smaller weight classes and up to middle weight.

My point is that when boxing became modern and weight classes became more pronounced, it had material affects on many boxing nations. If we were to really look exhaustively at British middleweight history, and include men like Jem mace, BOb Fitzimons, etc we would have a much more fluid and exhaustive list.

[Humean]

The last time the Brits had a lot of middle weights, they were fighting the irish back and fourth between Middle and heavy weight classes... Primarily during the bare knuckles area. Ditto for a lot of the talented colored fighters who would fight up or down like the original joe Walcott "barbados Joe" a lightweight who managed to fight heavyweights at select times!

It is also interesting that in a lot of the world the middle weights are the big boys...that situation persists in Thai Boxing to this day and in many cultures that bring fighters out of the smaller weight classes and up to middle weight.

My point is that when boxing became modern and weight classes became more pronounced, it had material affects on many boxing nations. If we were to really look exhaustively at British middleweight history, and include men like Jem mace, BOb Fitzimons, etc we would have a much more fluid and exhaustive list.

I only like direct comparisons if there is sufficient video footage to compare otherwise you're making comparisons to ghosts.

[billeau2]

I only like direct comparisons if there is sufficient video footage to compare otherwise you're making comparisons to ghosts.

It never hurts to see how the big picture developed. I am not speaking to the specific skills of any middle weight. Its just interesting how specialization of weight classes benefited some areas.