Great bare knuckle boxers

[billeau2]

”Jeffries must emerge from his alfalfa farm and remove that smile from Johnson’s face. Jeff, it’s up to you.”
Jack London reports from Sydney, 1908.

https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=...1227.2.167.1.1

About the bareknuckle era, the more I’ve read and learned about it, the more fascinating it gets.
Perhaps not all sources are reliable, but why ruin a good story with the truth ...

The sad thing is Jeffries was talked into that beating by the press corps who convinced him that "the white race needed him." Jeffries by all accounts was not a rascist, and not angry with Johnson (why should he have been) and really enjoyed farming alfalfa.

Its important to realize that people back then believed that skin color was an all encompassing indicator of culture, race and pride and part of that belief was a friendly competition, part of it was the most ill conceived rascist hatred and everything in between.

For my money I will never understand why London, a man who was sympathetic to animals, wrote beautiful stories about dogs... a man who wrote socialist progressive books about working in America, and the plight of the working man... yet was a stone cold rascist.

[The Old LefHook]

Here is the deal, Bill. People with current hatred against whites actually believe that positions A, B and C corresponding to White, Black and Red skin colors, had they been shuffled so that, say, blacks or reds had been in the superior social position instead of whites, would have produced a radically different result than the brutal one we know as American history.

No reasoning power there!

Every race should be claiming: They are no better than us, which is essentially true. Put any race in position A with all the power to rule over the races B and C, and the results will be brutal and eerily reminiscent of the reality we call American history. This is how man in history conducts himself, and it does not matter which breed of man is in position A, B or C. All history supports my contention, and no history anywhere refutes it.

[john l]

Who are some great bare knuckle boxers and how to you rank them in the historical standpoint of the sport?

james fig think he was about 1st to get name bigger than just local rep.But for best I gotta go with last. My namesake on here THE BOSTON STRONG BOY,THE GREAT JOHN L.He was most popular man in America(maybe world)during his time.His pic was in almost every pub in America.Great book on him called Joln l Sullivan and his America by M Isenberg

[billeau2]

Here is the deal, Bill. People with current hatred against whites actually believe that positions A, B and C corresponding to White, Black and Red skin colors, had they been shuffled so that, say, blacks or reds had been in the superior social position instead of whites, would have produced a radically different result than the brutal one we know as American history.

No reasoning power there!

Every race should be claiming: They are no better than us, which is essentially true. Put any race in position A with all the power to rule over the races B and C, and the results will be brutal and eerily reminiscent of the reality we call American history. This is how man in history conducts himself, and it does not matter which breed of man is in position A, B or C. All history supports my contention, and no history anywhere refutes it.

Yes. A man does not choose his race, or for that matter his social class, he chooses his principles.

Also, motivation blows IQ out of the water and creativity is what makes human nature so incredible and powerful. The Aztec King had 100 men that he wanted to carry a boulder up the side of a mountain, they tried in vain, so the general went to the king and informed him. The king smiled and had ten men and the general killed, the men tried again, nothing! Second general goes back to the king, king smiles kills the general and ten more men, and the boulder gets lifted with less men than before!

The fundamental problem with education is that to be a great student takes very little... a motivated student with an IQ of 80 can get great grades if he really tries, a creative kid will never get good grades because of boredom. So when these rascists talk about the IQ level of different social groups it should not matter when it comes to achievement since intelligence is so unimportant. What is measured is conformity and motivation... following directions.

The first time I knew my second had the creative mind I will never forget it Lefty. Both my boys have it lol and they manage a lot better than I did. So one evening mom went out with the girls, this was in San Francisco, the little one is real young, just off the potty really, and he is wanting mom...he is screaming and he bolts towards the door...so I lock the latch and sit down. I hear a dragging noise and what do I see? He had figures out that the steps he used to climb on the potty could be used to stand on and unlock the door latch! no school can teach that! lol.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I can't remember the guy's name but frank warren had a uncle or cousin that was a successful bare knuckle fighter.. frank got into the business by promoting one of the guys fights.

Can't verify, but have heard this on several occasions over the years

[billeau2]

I can't remember the guy's name but frank warren had a uncle or cousin that was a successful bare knuckle fighter.. frank got into the business by promoting one of the guys fights.

Can't verify, but have heard this on several occasions over the years

There is a thriving bare knuckles boxing scene... To this day.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

I can't remember the guy's name but frank warren had a uncle or cousin that was a successful bare knuckle fighter.. frank got into the business by promoting one of the guys fights.

Can't verify, but have heard this on several occasions over the years

There is a thriving bare knuckles boxing scene... To this day.

Lenny McLean

From Wikipedia

When Frank Warren formed the National Boxing Council in the 1970s, it allowed the toughest underground fighters in Britain to compete legally. McLean, unable to become a licensed boxer due to his violent reputation and criminal record, entered the world of unlicensed boxing (which, though legal, was not sanctioned by the British Boxing Board of Control), and he quickly became one of its brightest stars. His most famous bout was against George 'Pappy' Langley. The notorious Essex fighter had earned a name for himself by knocking out almost all of his opponents. The fight lasted one round with Langley victorious by KO.

McLean, who in his prime was six feet two inches (188 cm) tall and weighed over 20 stone (130 kg), boasted that he could beat anybody, in either a legitimate match or in an unlicensed match with or without gloves, and reputedly sent out challenges to many of the famous boxers of the day, including Muhammad Ali and Mr. T, though neither contest materialised. He was challenged by the king of the gypsies Bartley Gorman. He was offered one professional boxer by Frank Warren, David 'Bomber' Pearce the hard hitting British Heavyweight Champion from Newport. McLean declined to fight Pearce at that time.

McLean had a brutal trilogy of unlicensed matches with arch-rival Roy "Pretty Boy" Shaw, a former patient of Broadmoor Hospital. McLean lost to Shaw once via verbal submission, which McLean justified by claiming his gloves had been tampered with, thus reducing their maneuverability. McLean beat Shaw in a rematch with a dramatic first-round knockout in which Shaw was knocked out of the ring. In their final bout, McLean ended the feud with a brutal first-round knockout at the Rainbow Theatre in Finsbury Park, London in September 1978.

However, McLean was not invincible nor a trained professional athlete and large portions of his career cannot be verified. He was twice stopped in matches against Cliff Field, and twice beaten by Johnny "Big Bad" Waldron, and also lost on points to Kevin Paddock (none of which are mentioned in McLean's autobiography), although McLean always maintained that he had never lost a fight "on the cobbles" or outside the ring.

Despite these defeats, McLean claims to have competed in almost 4,000 fights over three decades, and winning the large majority of these. This led many to accept McLean as the unofficial Heavyweight Champion of the World in unlicensed boxing.

[The Old LefHook]

Talking about race and racism is one bore. There is plenty I could say on it, but politely pass. I would rather say that bare knuckles love soft tissue and seek it out. Punch placement has to be of overwhelming significance in bare knuckle fighting. Even the winner usually gets hurt in a street fight, and it is usually the mitts that suffer the damage.

[The Old LefHook]

However, as an aside, it would be quite interesting to perform a large scale experiment on two social groups supposedly diametrically opposed on abilities related to IQ, as Ashkenazi Jews and sub Saharan Africans, or northern Europeans and the latter, where both groups are exposed to an environment that is calculated to be equally foreign and unknown to both. The big problem is in calculating an environment equally foreign to both. An impossible thing to know precisely. But once one had an environment figured out, one could have a lot of fun tweaking the parameters by slight adjustments.

[OctoberRed]

One of the great bareknuckle fighters of the current era is Charlie Zelenoff.

I think his record is 165-0. One disputed loss to Wilder was removed after petition filed with the WBC.