Greb's resume vs. Robinson's resume?

[Bundana]

No, not really.

Hmm... we seem to be in disagreement here!

I don't know, how we should define "multiple", in this case - but, for arguments sake, let's say we set the bar at 3 (if that's fine with you).

So how about if I post my list of boxers, who Greb beat at least 3 times - and you post a similar list for Robinson? Fair enough?

I can't be 100% sure, I haven't overlooked someone... but there are at least 28 men Greb beat 3 times or more:

Chuck Wiggins x 8
Whitey Wenzel x 7
Clay Turner x 7
Fay Keiser x 6
Jeff Smith x 6
Battling Levinsky x 6
Bob Roper x 6
Bob Moha x 6
George ko Brown x 5
Zulu kid x 5
Harry Baker x 4
Young Fisher x 4
Bill Brennan x 4
Larry Williams x 4
Tommy Loughran x 4
Al Rogers x 3
Jackie Clark x 3
Willie Brennan x 3
Gus Christie x 3
Len Rowlands x 3
Soldier Bartfield x 3
Leo Houck x 3
Tommy Robson x 3
Bartley Madden x 3
Soldier Jones x 3
Johnny Wilson x 3
Jimmy Delaney x 3
Billy Britton x 3

Now let's see your list for Robinson, so we can compare the two.

[billeau2]

That Tunney win clinches it for me. Sure, Greb got his ass kicked by Tunney most of the rivalry, but Tunney was a fantastic boxer, and I can count the times the MW champion has beaten the HW champion of the world on my fingers. How many times has a MW champion beaten one of the greatest HWs of all time?

I mean I love Fitzs, but Corbett was a wimp. RJJ was one of the greatest, but Ruiz certainly wasn't. Even if you go into history guys like Daniel Mendoza and Tommy Sayer lifted their titles off weak champions. Even ancient days with Pythagoras of Samos, it's not like he had to face Theagenes or Melankomas.

It's a neat anecdote when a guy starts his career at MW ends up HW champion. When they actually get the MW title then beat the HW champion they joined an elite few. The number of guys to get the MW title and beat an ATG HW champ? I personally only know of Harry.

It's a close one though, so close I'd say my mood has more to do with my ultimate choice than there being any real legitimate claim for one over the other.

They lived in very different times. Boxed very differently under entirely different circumstances with a completely different atmosphere. Social acceptability plays a big roles in a fighter's career but also makes fighter's intangibles(accolades, bragging rights, etc) from different eras difficult to compare.

Love your post but if you could take this as constructive critiscism... You might want a second look at Corbett. You correctly state how different epoches in the sport produced different approaches/champions and go on to name some of the better technicians, guys like Mendoza, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMdot7QW9Mo

Corbett definitely looks crazy to a modern perspective. However if you look at the development of Tunney, and the fights with Dempsey, you will see in Tunney the last vestiges of the older system of boxing. Tunney is the guy who brings some of the modern Dempsey like distance changes in but in many ways uses the distancing, and technical work of the older system. Corbett was a superb technician. If you watch this link and then watch the tunney dempsey fights, I am sure you will see many technical details characteristic of what Corbett shares with Tunney.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

Hmm... we seem to be in disagreement here!

I don't know, how we should define "multiple", in this case - but, for arguments sake, let's say we set the bar at 3 (if that's fine with you).

So how about if I post my list of boxers, who Greb beat at least 3 times - and you post a similar list for Robinson? Fair enough?

I can't be 100% sure, I haven't overlooked someone... but there are at least 28 men Greb beat 3 times or more:

Chuck Wiggins x 8
Whitey Wenzel x 7
Clay Turner x 7
Fay Keiser x 6
Jeff Smith x 6
Battling Levinsky x 6
Bob Roper x 6
Bob Moha x 6
George ko Brown x 5
Zulu kid x 5
Harry Baker x 4
Young Fisher x 4
Bill Brennan x 4
Larry Williams x 4
Tommy Loughran x 4
Al Rogers x 3
Jackie Clark x 3
Willie Brennan x 3
Gus Christie x 3
Len Rowlands x 3
Soldier Bartfield x 3
Leo Houck x 3
Tommy Robson x 3
Bartley Madden x 3
Soldier Jones x 3
Johnny Wilson x 3
Jimmy Delaney x 3
Billy Britton x 3

Now let's see your list for Robinson, so we can compare the two.

Fritzie Zivic 2x
Marty Servo 2x
Lamotta 5x
Angott 3x
Izzy Jannazzo 4x
Kid Gavilan 2x
Robert Villeman 2x
Bobo Olson 4x

You're right lol Greb's resume of beating guys multiple times blows Robinson's away. Glad I was wrong.

However, I would say that the few names that are on this list are better quality than many on Greb's list.

[The Old LefHook]

Fritzie Zivic 2x
Marty Servo 2x
Lamotta 5x
Angott 3x
Izzy Jannazzo 4x
Kid Gavilan 2x
Robert Villeman 2x
Bobo Olson 4x

You're right lol Greb's resume of beating guys multiple times blows Robinson's away. Glad I was wrong.

However, I would say that the few names that are on this list are better quality than many on Greb's list.

The quality of those multiple opponents is exactly what is hard to assess. If we had good perspective on all of them we would then have great perspective on Greb, but we don't, not at all. How much do we know about Chuck Wiggins or Fay Keiser? Just because we have barely heard of them does not mean much. Battling Levinsky is the most recognizable name, but does that make him the best opponent on the list?

Correspongingly, we know a lot more about many of Robinson's opponents. They are on film in other events, not just against Ray.

We have at least a decent look at Walker and what he was all about. Fighting someone other than heavyweight he must have been awesome because that lefhook looks awfully sneaky without a bit of telegraph on it.

[billeau2]

How to say this: Not seeing film of a fighter should not be a factor in deciding how good they were, or how good their resume was.

[The Old LefHook]

How to say this: Not seeing film of a fighter should not be a factor in deciding how good they were, or how good their resume was.

Why, Jim Mace whips 'em all. Who needs film?

[billeau2]

Why, Jim Mace whips 'em all. Who needs film?

Jem was an original!

[ShoulderRoll]

Jem Mace taught Larry Foley of Australia.

Foley went on to train Peter Jackson, Bob Fitzsimmons, and Young Griffo among others.

[Canelo and GGG]

Greb was 33-11-4 vs HoFers ,SRR have not even 30 fights vs HoFers ,Greb have better resume then any one by far ,maybe not Langford

[Marchegiano]

Ezzard Charles. Yes he never held MW title, but was best at weight without getting a shot. Same as at LHW. And he beat Joe Louis (yes on slide.)

Just to clarify, Tunney was not HW champion at time he fought Greb.

If you like Ezzard Charles you may be interested in learning more about Kid Mathews. He's one of Marciano's more overlooked wins because of his lack of official accolades like a MW title but he was damn good. Debuted at around 130s-145 i reckon, started a rivalry with a man with hundreds more wins worth of experience than he had, and was on a fifty fight win streak when he faced Marciano. 90-7-6 in the 1950s is a hell of a record and if he'd paced his career and accepted ****ell had his number earlier than he did he could have shaved that down to 90-5-6 or some such similar.

Almost no one has success after facing Marciano. Rock retired more fighters than anyone else in history, so for Harry to meat Rock and still have some success afterward is pretty impressive. Ezzard couldn't do it, he lost to Harry and loads of other guys after he face Marciano. Harry only lost to ****ell after he faced Marciano.

****ell was the only guy to do better than predicted against Marciano. People think he was an easy fight but he was a bit of a beast. He even mauled the mauler when he face the Rock.


I can't say Don C o c kell's name? Dude's ****ing surname gets censored? Y'all don't think that's a little bit shameful?