James Jeffries' offer to Jack Johnson

[BKM-]

The well known story of Jack allegedly confronting Jeffries at a bar to give him a fight when he told Jack that they could duke it out in the basement and whoever walks out gets his wish. Does anybody have a detailed piece written on it? I can't seem to find it.

[Bundana]

This has been discussed at length on another site (which I don't think, I'm allowed to mention here!), and while there are lots of great tales about the old-timers, that are clearly made up... it does seem like this one could actually be true.

Here's a link to an article, where the incident is mentioned ("Dared Johnson in cellar"):

http://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/35417116?searchTerm=james%20jeffries%20fight%20cellar%20weekly%20articles&searchLimits=

[BattlingNelson]

Thanks Bundana. I really enjoyed reading that!

I'm confident the brash Johnson would have another view on that story.

[billeau2]

http://sporttoday.org/13_04546d414e39f3ef_1.htm

Heres the link I got. do not know if its the same as the one posted as I could not access the posted link.

Did it happen? If I had to bet I would say "You betcha it did!"

First the story is distinguished by a marked lack of hyperbole

its even mentioned that both men agreed that it happened as stated.

It makes sense: jeffries was a hulk. He had a pretty good idea that boxing, or no boxing, no man was going to tussle in a street fight like setting with him. Johnson was many things...he was gifted athletically, he was BLack, he could be charming....But he was not ******. A meeting of the minds, two samurai getting ready to duel, the first samurai sees a fly and cuts! the fly falls down in halfs, the second samurai sees a fly and cuts twice, the wings fall off the fly...both men bow the necessity to draw blood this time has passed...there is an obvious difference in skill and an obvious advantage for one man.

Jeffry would never beat Johnson in the ring imo, but the ring is the ring and one does not go to the late Kimbo Slice's yard and expect to leave with the same dentition as when one arrived. Going down to the woodshed with Jeffries would not be a pleasant experience by any account.

[BKM-]

Thank you for the links!

"Ah really want to fight yo', Misto Jeff," said Johnson.


"You really want to fight, do you?" I asked.


"I shore do," said the black man.

Gotta love the old school way of talking. Today's champs would probably go into 'come on mother-F F you and F that' type of banter.

@ billeau2 I'm gonna have to agree with you there. I don't know how big this cellar was, but in an enclosed space with no rules I would have to go with Jeffries for sure. From what I've read he would have been the stronger more skilled grappler(I'm assuming this was years before their fight) and Johnson would have no room to use his footwork, I'd see James batter him with what they call in MMA "dirty-boxing".

[ShoulderRoll]

What a slap in the face to Jack Johnson.

He asks for a title shot that he was deserving of as a world class fighting man...but instead gets offered a brawl in a cellar as if he was nothing more than common street trash.

Well, payback is a b*tch and karma certainly caught up to Mr. Jeff eventually.

[billeau2]

What a slap in the face to Jack Johnson.

He asks for a title shot that he was deserving of as a world class fighting man...but instead gets offered a brawl in a cellar as if he was nothing more than common street trash.

Well, payback is a b*tch and karma certainly caught up to Mr. Jeff eventually.

But don't you think that was a bit of self promotion for Johnson to approach in that setting? Johnson was also an expert psychologically of passive aggressive behavior... I can well picture his face when Jeffries issued the challenge, his eyes widening in a look of suprise, his hands probably stretching out like Red Foxx feigning a heart attack, his voice squeaking as though scared, as he feigns suprise: "Well, ohhh no mr jeff!! you most certainly mussa misunderstood my intentions as I approached you socially, with all your friends about and asked you for a fight... why Missa Johnson would never want to fight in a cella! no no!!!"

There used to be a term "puttin on master" used to describe when a slave would use skillful means to make the master (who was often enough a dolt) look like a dolt. Johnson was puttin on Jeffries knowing full well how Jeffries would respond lol. it was a way to make Jeffries confidant (JOhnson would not have said "lets go honky and down the cellar!!") and make Jeffries social circle aware that jeffries might back down from a challenge lol. Johnson knew the press would get involved and they did, forcing Jeffries into a fight that he had the best chance of winning in a cellar! and in no other place.

johnson was a smart man and a master at enraging the oppressors. He was just setting jeffries up for the kill.

[BKM-]

What a slap in the face to Jack Johnson.

He asks for a title shot that he was deserving of as a world class fighting man...but instead gets offered a brawl in a cellar as if he was nothing more than common street trash.

Well, payback is a b*tch and karma certainly caught up to Mr. Jeff eventually.

Lol what. Johnson tried to troll Jeffries and got put in his place instead. It's actually pretty funny.

As for karma, then I guess Johnson's caught up to his own once he faced Willard.

[billeau2]

Lol what. Johnson tried to troll Jeffries and got put in his place instead. It's actually pretty funny.

As for karma, then I guess Johnson's caught up to his own once he faced Willard.

"oh no mr willard, I don't want to fight you in no barn in Kansas. Especially when the sugar cane grows grow so high in Cuba!"

[ShoulderRoll]

Lol what. Johnson tried to troll Jeffries and got put in his place instead. It's actually pretty funny.

Johnson publically asked Jeffries for a title shot. Not much different than modern examples such as Erislandy Lara showing up at a Canelo post fight press conference to ask for a fight.

The difference is Canelo actually agreed to fight Lara. Jeffries never gave Johnson his title shot.