Top 5 P4P Ranking

[NChristo]

I actually have Jofre ranked ahead of Pep and any feather on a P4P too.

Based on a win against Legra and an ancient Saldivar when we have very limited footage of the fight ?.

I'm a Jofre fan but come on now.

[joeandthebums]

Robinson wouldn't only avoid bigger men, he also avoided the best w/in his weight range.

Are you okay to provide examples. Thanks.

Unfortunately we don't have any full fight footage of prime Robinson, but we do have a preponderance of post prime, and highlights, and I think that, combined with the info we have on him, helps build a complete picture of the fighter.

I think mid 40s Robinsons run, mixed in with what skillsets he displayed in the early 50s (speed, punching power, etc) show him to be better at that point then anyone ever who we have film on.

LOL, so you admit we have footage of him being dragged out of the ring against Joey Maxim, and the disaster against Tiger Jones... among other travesties. All of the footage shows me he had lots of charisma and entertainment value. But not that he was the greatest ever.

Is the logic here; because there is footage from a later time period of defeats that rules out the idea that his peak years would of been potentially the most impressive performances recorded?

[SBleeder]

1. Robinson
2. Greb
3. Armstrong
4. Langford
5. Charles

If there was footage of Greb, it's quite possible that I'd have him first.

Ezzard Charles is criminally underrated by a lot of so-called experts. He was a phenom at middleweight and light heavyweight. Since he couldn't get a title shot at either of those weights, he just moved up and beat the second best heavyweight of all time.

Joe Gans would be #6.

[Rusty Tromboni]

1. Robinson
2. Greb
3. Armstrong
4. Langford
5. Charles

If there was footage of Greb, it's quite possible that I'd have him first.

Ezzard Charles is criminally underrated by a lot of so-called experts. He was a phenom at middleweight and light heavyweight. Since he couldn't get a title shot at either of those weights, he just moved up and beat the second best heavyweight of all time.

Joe Gans would be #6.

there's footage of Langford and Gans - they're not that good. And there's no way they beat the guys whom Harry beat that we DO have on tape.

Actually MAcFarland was better than Gans. Not the KO puncher, but not as primitive, either. Way more consistent, and much better competition. The film isn't extensive or of great quality. And don't expect to see the Irish Lomachenko, but he's definitely better than Gans.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Are you okay to provide examples. Thanks.

I don't see Burley or Williams, on his record. He might have just missed Zale and the prominent members of Murderer's Row. I am sure there are folks who've got great evidence (or what they contrive as evidence) that shows it was all about wrong place, wrong time. But it's interesting that certain names are absent from his resume.

And I am not suggesting he was "duking" any one, per se. It does appear Armstrong's Ww championship was padded.

Any way, Greb and Walker were more capable of racking up fights against the who's-who of their generation.

Is the logic here; because there is footage from a later time period of defeats that rules out the idea that his peak years would of been potentially the most impressive performances recorded?

Don't overthink it. We have footage of Robinson. Much of it shows that he wasn't the greatest of all time. Even if he were a faded example of himself, he still shouldn't completely forget how to fight, or how to put up a fight.

Check out Jofre's fights w/ harada and everything afterwards. Very much a faded fighter, but still competent and successful.

It's a myth that Robinson was at his best as a Welterweight. For many of those championship fights he was cutting weight. He regularly fought at Middleweight and was beating top Middleweights. He caught fame early as a Lw; had an impressive Ww reign; and then (like all other people you know) continued growing, finally arriving at Mw in his prime. We've seen it with other fighters, Tommy Hearns, Floyd Mayweather, and Alexis Arguello being well known modern examples.

The dude was as big or bigger than Harry Greb. But again, different strategies: Robinson was better at bombing out guys half his size, Greb was better at working over guys twice his size. I'd take the guy that give Tunney fits over the guy who KO'd Bobo Olson.

[QueensburyRules]

--- Robby turned pro at 130.

You simply make stuff up. He's usually ranked the best ever welter and seldom makes the top of middle charts because he he retired after almost dying. When he made a comeback all but you knew he was damaged good and was succeeding on pure skills and heart which is where he made his most money.

[DeeMoney]

1. Robinson
2. Greb
3. Armstrong
4. Langford
5. Charles

If there was footage of Greb, it's quite possible that I'd have him first.

Ezzard Charles is criminally underrated by a lot of so-called experts. He was a phenom at middleweight and light heavyweight. Since he couldn't get a title shot at either of those weights, he just moved up and beat the second best heavyweight of all time.

Joe Gans would be #6.

Love me Ezzard Charles, I think he gets downgraded because most people view his late career work as a heavyweight and gloss over his time as a Lt Heavy (which makes sense as heavy is the glamour division and we have more footage of it).

His work at Lt Heavy was amazing, but I have only found limited footage of him pre the Baroudi tragedy

[Rusty Tromboni]

--- Robby turned pro at 130.

You simply make stuff up. He's usually ranked the best ever welter and seldom makes the top of middle charts because he he retired after almost dying. When he made a comeback all but you knew he was damaged good and was succeeding on pure skills and heart which is where he made his most money.

Oh, Queeny, do you ever pass on a chance for drama?

Yes, when Robinson was a still a teenage he weighed 130 lbs. If the titles weren't on freeze due to the War, I suspect he would have been world Lw champion, too.

But hey Langford - the man who might have been the best Heavyweight in the world pre-Dempsey - once fought Joe Gans (and won).

Conn - the guy who game your favorite-ever heavyweight fits - fought Zivic at Welterweight.


When Greb (who had the same heighth and reach as Mayweather) was stopped by Chip, he weighed 142 lbs to Chip's 156. Are we to believe he wasn't ever really a Middleweight?

So you see, in the past, just like today, humans grew as they aged. It's not an anomaly of the modern era. It's universal thing. It's a lot for you to wrap your head around, I understand; but give it time. It'll sink in.


Incidentally, just 6 yearsafter his debut, and right before winning the Ww Championship from Bell, Robinson had his legendary bout w/ Levine. He weight 150 pounds. Still, just shy of his prime, and already a filled-out Welterweight.

I don't care what lists say. No matter how many times something wrong is repeated it remains wrong. Repetition does produce a truth. This isn't the story of the catepillar who becomes the butterfly, that you read in school. There's no metaphorsis.
Look at BoxRec. They've recorded the weights fighter scaled in at. Those are facts. Not oft-repeated myths and unsubstantiated opinions.

[QueensburyRules]

- -Stating a few facts that anyone following boxing already know don't make you into some kinda boxing seer, it's more the last refuge of a sucker lacking any class or tact to hide how unstudied he really is.

[Rusty Tromboni]

- -Stating a few facts that anyone following boxing already know don't make you into some kinda boxing seer, it's more the last refuge of a sucker lacking any class or tact to hide how unstudied he really is.

Surrender accepted.