Why Isn't Benny Leonard the GOAT?

[Panamaniac]

Aside from their lack of knockouts Are Floyd and Whitaker apart of the most complete boxers ever club?

I call them pure boxers myself. They must have a deep medicine bag of traditional skills at their disposal. High athleticism helps. Floyd fits right in with guys like Mike Gibbons, Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney, Sweetpea Whitaker, Willie Pep, Wilfred Benitez and a few others.

Notably Ali, Leonard and Jones, three of the greatest fighters ever, are absent from this list. They relied mostly on supreme natural athleticism, and did not have a deep bag of traditional boxing skills. Once their reflexes were gone they were easy meat.

Mayweather is not one of the greatest fighters ever, in my view, because of the way he consistently conducted his career, but he is definitely one of the greatest pure boxers--he showed me enough to deserve that. The only key to being a great fighter is taking the monster challenges and winning them. Sometimes even being in them elevates your status. Mayweather lacks precisely those monster matches in his career where people thought he might get killed and he emerges victorious. People in their day actually thought SRL and Holyfield could lose their lives. Mayweather does not have that, but he could have. He avoided the thing that makes great boxers into great all time fighters. That is my view on it.

I couldn't have said it better myself. So I won't bother...

[ShoulderRoll]

I call them pure boxers myself. They must have a deep medicine bag of traditional skills at their disposal. High athleticism helps. Floyd fits right in with guys like Mike Gibbons, Benny Leonard, Gene Tunney, Sweetpea Whitaker, Willie Pep, Wilfred Benitez and a few others.

Notably Ali, Leonard and Jones, three of the greatest fighters ever, are absent from this list. They relied mostly on supreme natural athleticism, and did not have a deep bag of traditional boxing skills. Once their reflexes were gone they were easy meat.

Mayweather is not one of the greatest fighters ever, in my view, because of the way he consistently conducted his career, but he is definitely one of the greatest pure boxers--he showed me enough to deserve that. The only key to being a great fighter is taking the monster challenges and winning them. Sometimes even being in them elevates your status. Mayweather lacks precisely those monster matches in his career where people thought he might get killed and he emerges victorious. People in their day actually thought SRL and Holyfield could lose their lives. Mayweather does not have that, but he could have. He avoided the thing that makes great boxers into great all time fighters. That is my view on it.

Who was around during Floyd's era that might have killed him? He pretty much fought everyone there was to fight.

I suppose he missed Margarito but there were legit reasons why he went elsewhere.

[GrandpaBernard]

Floyd would have had to fight Carl Froch for people to think he'd get killed.

Floyd was still the favorite against his realistic "big threats".

[The Old LefHook]

Lies and more lies, excuses, rationalizations, minimalizations for little Floyd. Instead of yapping about GGG for the last three years he could have fought him. He is still yapping, telling us only recently, "Y'all knows what I would do to him."

Sure, we always know. So he doesn't actually have to fight someone when they are at their most dangerous, he just has to remind us of what we already know when he fights the faded version. Faded versions always were just fine with little Floyd.

Great boxer, and a poor, posturing, cherry picking champion. He never needed to beat fighters, he only needed general consent that "He would have won, had they fought earlier." Chico is his only great win.

[The Old LefHook]

But getting back to the OP, Benny may very well be the GOAT. I will put Benny Leonard, Harry Greb, Mike Gibbons, Gene Tunney, Mickey Walker, Billy Conn, Willie Pep, Carlos Monzon, Roberto Duran and Rocky Marciano in the ring with anyone their weight, and reasonably expect a victory or very close fight.

Throw in Robinson, and above we have a probable and realistic ATG top eleven list in no particular order.

[Elroy The Great]

what can anyone really know about a guy AND HIS COMP back in those days ?

excellent nn though ''Ghetto Wizard''

[Japanese Boxing]

He has arguably the best nickname of all time. Great boxer, love his style. Some guys rank him at the best, rightfully so. He had a stellar resume and was a real fighter. No ducking, just throwing fists and slipping them. It's too bad he left so soon. I don't know his influence on younger fighters, but I do wish he had more written down. I always wanted to pick his mind, or get something close to it.

[Anthony342]

Lies and more lies, excuses, rationalizations, minimalizations for little Floyd. Instead of yapping about GGG for the last three years he could have fought him. He is still yapping, telling us only recently, "Y'all knows what I would do to him."

Sure, we always know. So he doesn't actually have to fight someone when they are at their most dangerous, he just has to remind us of what we already know when he fights the faded version. Faded versions always were just fine with little Floyd.

Great boxer, and a poor, posturing, cherry picking champion. He never needed to beat fighters, he only needed general consent that "He would have won, had they fought earlier." Chico is his only great win.

Well f***%n said and couldn't sum up Floyd's career any better. Also his first retirement hurts his legacy as well, avoiding Margharito and a younger Cotto, Mosley.

[ShoulderRoll]

Well f***%n said and couldn't sum up Floyd's career any better. Also his first retirement hurts his legacy as well, avoiding Margharito and a younger Cotto, Mosley.

No disrespect intended, but you really don't know what you are talking about if you believe all that.

It's documented that Bob Arum kept a younger Cotto away from Floyd Mayweather because he didn't think he was ready. And Mosley is on video telling Larry Merchant after a fight that he couldn't fight Floyd next because his tooth was loose.



I know you guys are dead set on hating Mayweather but at least base it on facts not just on your feelings.

I don't even know why we're talking about him so much in a thread about Benny Leonard.

[True-Boxing-Fan]

Aside from their lack of knockouts Are Floyd and Whitaker apart of the most complete boxers ever club?

Absolutely not Floyd. He was a master with his shoulder roll and defense.

But his offense or lack there of at times really made him hard to watch. His pot shotting stype at times was weak and his lack of power make him not complete.