Muhammad Ali and the Big Fighters

[Pugilist_Spec]

Oh yeah right!

Frank "I can't box" Bruno and Ray the statue Mercer are better jabbers than Lennox LEwis!!!

Well done buddy, nice try selling THAT to the public!

Ali was smacked down and basically out by a 185lb bum! And otherwise never really fought ANY decent punchers, the 2 occasions he did, 1 he LOST (Lyle) only to be gifted the win anyway and the other (Foreman) was a gas out stoppage with so many fishy aspects it could fill a book. Needless to say Foreman never really hit Ali flush in the head much anyway, not because Ali was so genius (he was utterly ridiculous) but because Foreman was even worse!

Besides, Foreman 90's had an iron chin, certainly not 70's.

Ali is best described as a chinny featherfisted gun shy cruiser lacking in fundamental boxing skills and mostly out of shape through laziness and indulgence.

He did have fast hands and good stamina but the main reason he won was because he out-talled and out-weighed nearly all of his opponents.

Lucky for Ali it was the 70's and there would not be any really decent opponents for atleast another 10 years.

Well yes, since they outjabbed Lewis, they have better jabs. You can add Holyfield to that list too.

Ali was still young and growing when he fought Cooper. He fought plenty of hard punchers throughout his career. Hell, look at the Larry Holmes fight. He was literally shot to bits and pieces and still stuck around round after round. His chin was unquestionable. You needed a baseball bat to get rid of him.

He staggered Lyle badly with a single right hand and pretty much finished the fight. Lyle wasn't in there anymore. Another display of Ali's power actually. Thanks for brining that up.

He rattled Foreman badly with combinations at the ropes. Even staggered him at some point. Foremans chin was impregnable no matter the decade. You can **** off with that logic back to HW-blog.

He took countless bodyshots and 1-2s at the ropes. Foremans jab rattled Holyfield and hurt him badly. The punishment Ali took in that fight was astounding.

You're clueless.

[Elroy1]

[QUOTE=Pugilist_Spec;16250178]

Well yes, since they outjabbed Lewis, they have better jabs. You can add Holyfield to that list too.

Look Lewis is considered to have a top 5 jab all time EVEN BY NUT BAG STANDARDS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnBcGst5CI

And one need look no further than a near perfect display of the jab than his fight with David Tua, a relentless steam roller kept at bay for an entire night. This contrasts with Ali who failed to keep a diminutive punch bag bum in Frazier off of him, an opponent who LEnnox would KO with the first connected jab.

So he had some issues with Bruno, MErcer and Holyfield. LEnnox WON these fights and all you can REALLY say about Holy and Bruno was that they had moments and as for MErcer, sure it was close. LEnnox sometimes showed up lazy to fights and had bad nights, that's given, but he normally always capitalised on it and again, in contrast, Ali struggled in EVERY fight pretty much and was never able to keep his opponent at bay, hence the running, hence the hugging, hence the punch baggery.

Ali was still young and growing when he fought Cooper.

How convenient for him.

He fought plenty of hard punchers throughout his career.

The hardest (Foreman 70's) would be regarded as an average to below average hitter in the 90's/00's and the rest are a total joke with Cruiser power.

Hell, look at the Larry Holmes fight.

Larry is not a big puncher at all.

He was literally shot to bits and pieces

Not sold on this BS anyway, he was not even that old and still in decent shape, he was made to look crap because he was crap. Holmes used to spank him always in sparring even when he was young.

and still stuck around round after round.

Because the punches were weak.

His chin was unquestionable. You needed a baseball bat to get rid of him.

His chin was not of a calibre sufficient for the SuperHW division. He was able to sustain a large volume of punches from light hitters (Ali's era is mathematically the most featherfisted era of all time on a lb4lb basis), but was never tested against the kind of power he would have to sustain from 90's opponents. And the times he was decked and rocked suggest he would be wasted by virtually every 90's opponent with a hard punch, let alone LEnnox LEwis.

He staggered Lyle badly with a single right hand and pretty much finished the fight. Lyle wasn't in there anymore. Another display of Ali's power actually. Thanks for brining that up.

The Lyle gift was one of the most outrageous Ali assists there was. Ali in reality lost 11 fights by my count and was assisted or benefitted from unusual conditions throughout his entire career.

Muhammad's career was the most manufatured one in history, puttting present day Wilder to shame.

In this particular instance, Ali was smashed up the entire fight having asically not even showed up. And then after some brief moments in the final stanzas, the referee waved Lyle off whilst not even very hurt- Ali had been hurt WAY worse and allowed to continue in many many prev fights and Lyle was allowed to go on after multiple KD's against Foreman.

LYle was defeated by the ref not Ali,

Ali LOST to Lyle.

He rattled Foreman badly with combinations at the ropes. Even staggered him at some point. Foremans chin was impregnable no matter the decade. You can **** off with that logic back to HW-blog.

You can see Foreman blowing his stack until the end and not adjusting. You can see how weak Ali's shots were. You can see Foreman not landing anything on Ali's head. You can see Foreman totally exhausted who always had bad stamina in the 70's.

As for chin? Foreman was also ****** about by another featherfist cruiser bum in Jimmy Young, how do you explain the miracle Foreman chin now?

This Young who also beat Ali too as a side note. Hell we ought to consider Young the GOAT sicne he beat both the top champs of the 70's LOL

He took countless bodyshots and 1-2s at the ropes. Foremans jab rattled Holyfield and hurt him badly. The punishment Ali took in that fight was astounding.

Holyfield easily beat a FAR heftier, stronger, more durable, paced and far more intelligent Foreman than did Ali.

There is no comparison between Foreman 1 and Foreman 2, they were practically different boxers. To a lesser extent the same can be applied to Muhammad Ali, except there's no version of Ali that wold be a serious competitior in the Lewis era. Holmes and Foreman there was!!

You're clueless.

These are the facts mate,

you support a false idol who is completely exposed.

Before boxrec and uploaded fight video, people relied on word of mouth for this info, NOW anyody can look up just how abysmal this stuff actually was with ease.

I'd say you got busted!

[Pugilist_Spec]

Look Lewis is considered to have a top 5 jab all time EVEN BY NUT BAG STANDARDS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnBcGst5CI

And one need look no further than a near perfect display of the jab than his fight with David Tua, a relentless steam roller kept at bay for an entire night. This contrasts with Ali who failed to keep a diminutive punch bag bum in Frazier off of him, an opponent who LEnnox would KO with the first connected jab.

So he had some issues with Bruno, MErcer and Holyfield. LEnnox WON these fights and all you can REALLY say about Holy and Bruno was that they had moments and as for MErcer, sure it was close. LEnnox sometimes showed up lazy to fights and had bad nights, that's given, but he normally always capitalised on it and again, in contrast, Ali struggled in EVERY fight pretty much and was never able to keep his opponent at bay, hence the running, hence the hugging, hence the punch baggery.

LMAO

I couldn't care less about what a youtube poster thinks. Lewis was OUTJABBED by the best jabbers he met. When did he ever dominate a fight behind a jab?

Tua? Relentless? Tua was a fat tomato can and his performance in that fight is well remembered as by far the weakest effort ever put up in a championship fight.

I haven't even mentioned Ali in this paragraph, I don't think he had an exceptional jab either. But Larry Holmes jab makes Lewis look like an amateur.

Look at a 42yo Larry schooling an unbeaten Mercer with a jab from the ropes, then look at Lewis in peak shape outjabbed, beaten from pillar to post by the same guy and being lucky to get away with the decision.

How convenient for him.

It's true though.

The hardest (Foreman 70's) would be regarded as an average to below average hitter in the 90's/00's and the rest are a total joke with Cruiser power.

On what basis? 90s Foreman according to Holyfield was the hardest puncher he ever fought and Holyfield fought Bowe, Tyson and Lewis. Unless you can provide EVIDENCE that 70s Foreman punched weaker, please don't answer.

Larry is not a big puncher at all.

15 KOs in 20 championship fights begs to differ.

Larry had exceptional physical strength for a man his size and his right cross and uppercut were heavy, lethal punches.

Not sold on this BS anyway, he was not even that old and still in decent shape, he was made to look crap because he was crap. Holmes used to spank him always in sparring even when he was young.

Holmes was filmed after the fight crying and saying that Ali was washed up beyond words. Honestly, if you don't see it that you're ****ing ******ed, Elroy.

Because the punches were weak.

No they weren't.

His chin was not of a calibre sufficient for the SuperHW division. He was able to sustain a large volume of punches from light hitters (Ali's era is mathematically the most featherfisted era of all time on a lb4lb basis), but was never tested against the kind of power he would have to sustain from 90's opponents. And the times he was decked and rocked suggest he would be wasted by virtually every 90's opponent with a hard punch, let alone LEnnox LEwis.

Yes it was. PROVE it wasn't. 90s Foreman had the best chin of all time, and there is absolutely no reason to think it was weaker than his chin in the 70s.

He said that Ron Lyle was by far the hardest puncher he met. And he fought Tommy Morrison, who had comparable power to Lewis. Foreman outright said that the guys he fought in the 70s were better.

You're just being spastic here, acknowledge the facts or **** off.

The Lyle gift was one of the most outrageous Ali assists there was. Ali in reality lost 11 fights by my count and was assisted or benefitted from unusual conditions throughout his entire career.

Muhammad's career was the most manufatured one in history, puttting present day Wilder to shame.

In this particular instance, Ali was smashed up the entire fight having asically not even showed up. And then after some brief moments in the final stanzas, the referee waved Lyle off whilst not even very hurt- Ali had been hurt WAY worse and allowed to continue in many many prev fights and Lyle was allowed to go on after multiple KD's against Foreman.

LYle was defeated by the ref not Ali,

Ali LOST to Lyle.

Lyle was staggered badly by a counter right hand and took about 40 unanswered shots. There were 4 more rounds to go, and Lyle CLEARLY was not in the fight anymore. What was the ref supposed to do?

You can see Foreman blowing his stack until the end and not adjusting. You can see how weak Ali's shots were. You can see Foreman not landing anything on Ali's head. You can see Foreman totally exhausted who always had bad stamina in the 70's.

As for chin? Foreman was also ****** about by another featherfist cruiser bum in Jimmy Young, how do you explain the miracle Foreman chin now?

This Young who also beat Ali too as a side note. Hell we ought to consider Young the GOAT sicne he beat both the top champs of the 70's LOL

I can see none of that. I can see Foreman punching Ali's body and head, and Ali taking the shots. I can see Foreman backing up slightly with every punch Ali threw, staggering at one point.

Foreman for the Young fight was a victim of hallucination-inducing dehydration and had a near death experience right after the fight. Why are you being ignorant, you know Foreman was a mess by that point. And he was dropped because he gassed out, unlike in the Ali fight where he was genuinely hurt throughout the fight. Foremans chin was iron in the 70s, period.

Holyfield easily beat a FAR heftier, stronger, more durable, paced and far more intelligent Foreman than did Ali.

There is no comparison between Foreman 1 and Foreman 2, they were practically different boxers. To a lesser extent the same can be applied to Muhammad Ali, except there's no version of Ali that wold be a serious competitior in the Lewis era. Holmes and Foreman there was!!

Young Foreman had the same chin and power as Old Foreman, this is the default position unless you can actually provide any sort of evidence suggesting otherwise. Young Foreman was a better mover with far quicker handspeed. Young Foreman was much, much better than his old counterpart.

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=Elroy1;16250459]

Look Lewis is considered to have a top 5 jab all time EVEN BY NUT BAG STANDARDS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnBcGst5CI

And one need look no further than a near perfect display of the jab than his fight with David Tua, a relentless steam roller kept at bay for an entire night. This contrasts with Ali who failed to keep a diminutive punch bag bum in Frazier off of him, an opponent who LEnnox would KO with the first connected jab.

So he had some issues with Bruno, MErcer and Holyfield. LEnnox WON these fights and all you can REALLY say about Holy and Bruno was that they had moments and as for MErcer, sure it was close. LEnnox sometimes showed up lazy to fights and had bad nights, that's given, but he normally always capitalised on it and again, in contrast, Ali struggled in EVERY fight pretty much and was never able to keep his opponent at bay, hence the running, hence the hugging, hence the punch baggery.



How convenient for him.



The hardest (Foreman 70's) would be regarded as an average to below average hitter in the 90's/00's and the rest are a total joke with Cruiser power.



Larry is not a big puncher at all.



Not sold on this BS anyway, he was not even that old and still in decent shape, he was made to look crap because he was crap. Holmes used to spank him always in sparring even when he was young.



Because the punches were weak.



His chin was not of a calibre sufficient for the SuperHW division. He was able to sustain a large volume of punches from light hitters (Ali's era is mathematically the most featherfisted era of all time on a lb4lb basis), but was never tested against the kind of power he would have to sustain from 90's opponents. And the times he was decked and rocked suggest he would be wasted by virtually every 90's opponent with a hard punch, let alone LEnnox LEwis.



The Lyle gift was one of the most outrageous Ali assists there was. Ali in reality lost 11 fights by my count and was assisted or benefitted from unusual conditions throughout his entire career.

Muhammad's career was the most manufatured one in history, puttting present day Wilder to shame.

In this particular instance, Ali was smashed up the entire fight having asically not even showed up. And then after some brief moments in the final stanzas, the referee waved Lyle off whilst not even very hurt- Ali had been hurt WAY worse and allowed to continue in many many prev fights and Lyle was allowed to go on after multiple KD's against Foreman.

LYle was defeated by the ref not Ali,

Ali LOST to Lyle.



You can see Foreman blowing his stack until the end and not adjusting. You can see how weak Ali's shots were. You can see Foreman not landing anything on Ali's head. You can see Foreman totally exhausted who always had bad stamina in the 70's.

As for chin? Foreman was also ****** about by another featherfist cruiser bum in Jimmy Young, how do you explain the miracle Foreman chin now?

This Young who also beat Ali too as a side note. Hell we ought to consider Young the GOAT sicne he beat both the top champs of the 70's LOL



Holyfield easily beat a FAR heftier, stronger, more durable, paced and far more intelligent Foreman than did Ali.

There is no comparison between Foreman 1 and Foreman 2, they were practically different boxers. To a lesser extent the same can be applied to Muhammad Ali, except there's no version of Ali that wold be a serious competitior in the Lewis era. Holmes and Foreman there was!!



These are the facts mate,

you support a false idol who is completely exposed.

Before boxrec and uploaded fight video, people relied on word of mouth for this info, NOW anyody can look up just how abysmal this stuff actually was with ease.

I'd say you got busted!

Brilliant, absolutely brilliant...

[juggernaut666]

[QUOTE=Elroy1;16250459]

Look Lewis is considered to have a top 5 jab all time EVEN BY NUT BAG STANDARDS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBnBcGst5CI

And one need look no further than a near perfect display of the jab than his fight with David Tua, a relentless steam roller kept at bay for an entire night. This contrasts with Ali who failed to keep a diminutive punch bag bum in Frazier off of him, an opponent who LEnnox would KO with the first connected jab.

So he had some issues with Bruno, MErcer and Holyfield. LEnnox WON these fights and all you can REALLY say about Holy and Bruno was that they had moments and as for MErcer, sure it was close. LEnnox sometimes showed up lazy to fights and had bad nights, that's given, but he normally always capitalised on it and again, in contrast, Ali struggled in EVERY fight pretty much and was never able to keep his opponent at bay, hence the running, hence the hugging, hence the punch baggery.



How convenient for him.



The hardest (Foreman 70's) would be regarded as an average to below average hitter in the 90's/00's and the rest are a total joke with Cruiser power.



Larry is not a big puncher at all.



Not sold on this BS anyway, he was not even that old and still in decent shape, he was made to look crap because he was crap. Holmes used to spank him always in sparring even when he was young.



Because the punches were weak.



His chin was not of a calibre sufficient for the SuperHW division. He was able to sustain a large volume of punches from light hitters (Ali's era is mathematically the most featherfisted era of all time on a lb4lb basis), but was never tested against the kind of power he would have to sustain from 90's opponents. And the times he was decked and rocked suggest he would be wasted by virtually every 90's opponent with a hard punch, let alone LEnnox LEwis.



The Lyle gift was one of the most outrageous Ali assists there was. Ali in reality lost 11 fights by my count and was assisted or benefitted from unusual conditions throughout his entire career.

Muhammad's career was the most manufatured one in history, puttting present day Wilder to shame.

In this particular instance, Ali was smashed up the entire fight having asically not even showed up. And then after some brief moments in the final stanzas, the referee waved Lyle off whilst not even very hurt- Ali had been hurt WAY worse and allowed to continue in many many prev fights and Lyle was allowed to go on after multiple KD's against Foreman.

LYle was defeated by the ref not Ali,

Ali LOST to Lyle.



You can see Foreman blowing his stack until the end and not adjusting. You can see how weak Ali's shots were. You can see Foreman not landing anything on Ali's head. You can see Foreman totally exhausted who always had bad stamina in the 70's.

As for chin? Foreman was also ****** about by another featherfist cruiser bum in Jimmy Young, how do you explain the miracle Foreman chin now?

This Young who also beat Ali too as a side note. Hell we ought to consider Young the GOAT sicne he beat both the top champs of the 70's LOL



Holyfield easily beat a FAR heftier, stronger, more durable, paced and far more intelligent Foreman than did Ali.

There is no comparison between Foreman 1 and Foreman 2, they were practically different boxers. To a lesser extent the same can be applied to Muhammad Ali, except there's no version of Ali that wold be a serious competitior in the Lewis era. Holmes and Foreman there was!!



These are the facts mate,

you support a false idol who is completely exposed.

Before boxrec and uploaded fight video, people relied on word of mouth for this info, NOW anyody can look up just how abysmal this stuff actually was with ease.

I'd say you got busted!

You know its pointless to argue with anyone claiming Foreman was getting worked over ,and Foreman battering Ali...neither is true .Ali didnt land all but maybe 10 solid shots to Foreman throughout the fight until the last round he got the k.o , and Foremans accuracy was so bad he landed 5 grazing shots to Alis head out of about 25 punches thrown in the first round, counting the actual head shots that landed cleanly the entire fight it was about 15 and none of them were off the ropes . The only punishment Ali actually took was to the body and many were blocked on the inside .

The Lewis jab? Im not even going there ...lol... i will say Morrison was beating the living day lights out of Mercer before he punched himself out while Lewis manhandled him easily with just the jab and even knocked him down with one , if we are nit picking fights there are high lite reels of Lewis jab in action,wheres Mercers?

Not as pointless with one who claims Dempsey a Lewis slayer though.......

[Pugilist_Spec]

[QUOTE=juggernaut666;16254494]

You know its pointless to argue with anyone claiming Foreman was getting worked over ,and Foreman battering Ali...neither is true .Ali didnt land all but maybe 10 solid shots to Foreman throughout the fight until the last round he got the k.o , and Foremans accuracy was so bad he landed 5 grazing shots to Alis head out of about 25 punches thrown in the first round, counting the actual head shots that landed cleanly the entire fight it was about 15 and none of them were off the ropes . The only punishment Ali actually took was to the body and many were blocked on the inside .

Ali was outboxing Foreman the whole night and staggered him. This is a fact.

Foreman landed plenty of shots on Ali throughout the night. Sure, he probably never landed a flush, full-powered uppercut on his chin, but he didn't need to.

Foreman almost decapitated Cooney with a grazing uppercut...he knocked out Michael Moorer in another dimension with a 1-2 that looked like it couldn't hurt a fly...he was rocking Holyfield senseless with JABS...Foreman was a force of nature. The only reason he didn't look impressive offensively is because the recipient of his punches was one of the toughest fighters to ever get into the ring. I could guarantee you that very few men would have been standing after those body shots alone.

[QUOTE=juggernaut666;16254494]

The Lewis jab? Im not even going there ...lol... i will say Morrison was beating the living day lights out of Mercer before he punched himself out while Lewis manhandled him easily with just the jab and even knocked him down with one , if we are nit picking fights there are high lite reels of Lewis jab in action,wheres Mercers?

Not as pointless with one who claims Dempsey a Lewis slayer though.......

Look, this is simple. Every time Lewis met a good jabber he was outjabbed. He simply did not have a great jab. A very heavy one, yes. It made opponents re-think their gameplan once they got hit with it...but he never won a jabbing contest against another formidable jabber.

Holyfield II outjabbed him.
Bruno outjabbed him.
Mercer outjabbed him.
Vitali outjabbed him.





He would slaughter Dempsey though.

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=juggernaut666;16254494]

You know its pointless to argue with anyone claiming Foreman was getting worked over ,and Foreman battering Ali...neither is true .Ali didnt land all but maybe 10 solid shots to Foreman throughout the fight until the last round he got the k.o , and Foremans accuracy was so bad he landed 5 grazing shots to Alis head out of about 25 punches thrown in the first round, counting the actual head shots that landed cleanly the entire fight it was about 15 and none of them were off the ropes . The only punishment Ali actually took was to the body and many were blocked on the inside .

The Lewis jab? Im not even going there ...lol... i will say Morrison was beating the living day lights out of Mercer before he punched himself out while Lewis manhandled him easily with just the jab and even knocked him down with one , if we are nit picking fights there are high lite reels of Lewis jab in action,wheres Mercers?

Not as pointless with one who claims Dempsey a Lewis slayer though.......

Jugger and Elroy (Mork and Mindy)

You two boys have made my weekend. I have not laughed as much in a long time.
Throughout Lennox Lewis entire career, he has been lambasted about his Jab. Many writer's and commentators saying, "His jab was none existent, nothing more than a paw, a distraction" Others like George Foreman claimed, "Lewis has no jab, he doesn't know how to throw a jab" ~ Frank Bruno gave Lewis a beating, using only his jab. But i want to back out of this silly debate. I want to read Mork and Mindy's comments, they are hilarious.

Ali only hit Foreman maybe 10 times the whole fight

[CarlosG815]

sonnyboy, i have missed you my friend. good to see you back on the forums! it was no fun without you

[sonnyboyx2]

[QUOTE=Pugilist_Spec;16254575][QUOTE=juggernaut666;16254494]

Ali was outboxing Foreman the whole night and staggered him. This is a fact.

Foreman landed plenty of shots on Ali throughout the night. Sure, he probably never landed a flush, full-powered uppercut on his chin, but he didn't need to.

Foreman almost decapitated Cooney with a grazing uppercut...he knocked out Michael Moorer in another dimension with a 1-2 that looked like it couldn't hurt a fly...he was rocking Holyfield senseless with JABS...Foreman was a force of nature. The only reason he didn't look impressive offensively is because the recipient of his punches was one of the toughest fighters to ever get into the ring. I could guarantee you that very few men would have been standing after those body shots alone.

Look, this is simple. Every time Lewis met a good jabber he was outjabbed. He simply did not have a great jab. A very heavy one, yes. It made opponents re-think their gameplan once they got hit with it...but he never won a jabbing contest against another formidable jabber.

Holyfield II outjabbed him.
Bruno outjabbed him.
Mercer outjabbed him.
Vitali outjabbed him.





He would slaughter Dempsey though.

Lewis Jab was pathetic.. Many claim Lewis was a better fighter under Emmanuel Steward ~ RUBBISH!. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. Lewis was still amateurish under Steward. All Steward ever done for Lewis, was tell Lewis who to avoid and who to fight. Steward was instrumental, in getting Lewis to avoid Chris Byrd claiming, "Lewis would most likely lose a decision, with Byrd making him look very bad" ~ Steward had Lewis avoid the top fighters and fight "shot fighters" who was on the downside of their careers. Steward had Lewis fight McCall, knowing McCall was in a Drug Rehab and in no condition to fight. Steward knew Holyfield could not fight for 3 minutes of each round in 1999. Steward knew Mike Tyson was a "Drug Addict in 2002" Steward had Lewis agree to fight them. Emmanuel Steward was there for the coin.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/wlads-even-better-than-lennox-says-750329

[juggernaut666]

[QUOTE=Pugilist_Spec;16254575][QUOTE=juggernaut666;16254494]

Ali was outboxing Foreman the whole night and staggered him. This is a fact.

Foreman landed plenty of shots on Ali throughout the night. Sure, he probably never landed a flush, full-powered uppercut on his chin, but he didn't need to.

"Foreman almost decapitated Cooney with a grazing uppercut...he knocked out Michael Moorer in another dimension with a 1-2 that looked like it couldn't hurt a fly...he was rocking Holyfield senseless with JABS...Foreman was a force of nature."


This above has nothing to do with nothing .

"Look, this is simple. Every time Lewis met a good jabber he was outjabbed. He simply did not have a great jab. A very heavy one, yes. It made opponents re-think their gameplan once they got hit with it...but he never won a jabbing contest against another formidable jabber."

The above is false !

Holyfield stated that was more difficult the second time around because of Lewis jab that he couldnt get around.

Even an exhausted foreman by round 6 was still pushing him backwards. As to the head shot count ,foreman punches that actually landed solid was extremely poor,in round one alone,he only landed 4 ones out of about 25 head shots thrown...altether he landed about only 27 power shots to the head and not one landed was off the ropes,the best punch was foremans right uppercut in rnd round 7 but he looked like he was on his death bed.All in all I saw glancing blows /blocked and completly missed ones that would resemble a major league pitcher more than a pro fighter,no wonder why he lost so badly.. sorry but when you watch the actual fight this is what is seen! Holyfield did not out jab him which is why he lost TWICE. As a matter of fact Holyfield stated Lewis was more difficult the second time around and had more difficulties getting past his jab.....you are simply not really watching theses fights . Again where is this staggered Foreman you speak of ?What rnd ?Time? The only time Foreman stumbled was from his own missed shots with Ali leaning backwards on the ropes !


The only thing without real question you stated that was right was Lewis would slaughter dempsey!