Why didnt Tyson Vs. Bowe happen?

[juggernaut666]

Only my opinion, but I believe Tyson vs. either Holyfield/Lewis/Bowe would of broke the PPV buy record Tyson-McNeeley set.



Lewis would of had the WBC title.

King planned to match Tyson, once he beat Holyfield, with IBF champion Michael Moorer, in the final fight of the six-fight MGM Grand deal.

Expectations were that Tyson-Lewis would met in a unification contest - with leverage of site fee, unified championship and fighters involved, record numbers were being looked upon.



That is correct, but not route they decided to take.



Whether it was right I cannot say, but there is a pattern of behavior.

McNeeley only broke records because everyone wanted to see how Tyson comes out and how long it takes him to demolish McNeeley...which they got...and quickly.

[juggernaut666]

Or kind of like how you said Lewis fought Mercer after Tyson beat Seldon. Another lie that you can't get away with.

Yawn..Tyson fought Bruno as it was a mandatory opponent...when Lewis fought Mercer it was already in the works of a Seldon fight...Tyson fought Seldon,he won ...Lewis fought Akiwande and McCall in 97,almost a year had past after his last fight meanwhile Tyson fought 3 times in 96,one was Holyfield while Lewis didn't fight anyone in 97 worth note at that time yet he didn't want Tyson when he could have after Seldon had he just waited and did the contract? Let the big boys stick to the important facts..kiddo! Go tag that other account in, its getting boring laying the smack down on this one!



and as a reminder to the actual thread this is the statement you said made the most sense on here....



"During Tyson's post prison career Don King was concerned with guiding Tyson to a title. His plans did not include bouts with Lennox Lewis, Holyfield and Bowe who were a danger to his plans."



Now try and tell us again how the above makes sense? lmao
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[Elroy1]

Actually this is true.

There was no collision course where these two were destined to meet. Profile wise, left to his own devices, Bowe was often driven by animosity....for example, he really wanted to destroy Gonzolez. Then you had the management which, made the decisions and had their own agenda, which did not include a bowe tyson match up... you had the alphabet soup which wanted to maintain their respective champs, You had lewis in the picture and...Tyson was a mentor like figure to Bowe who is on tape as saying as much. The friendship was paramount and given the other considerations no doubt Bowe's personal attitude was to cross that bridge when he came to it, despite never coming to it!

Yes I can concur with you on this one Bill (but your still a nut bag).

In fact Bowe often regaled Tyson publically, they were clearly friends from the same neighourhood apparently.

I think, speculatively, that it would be most likely Bowe who would avoid Tyson based on ferocity and punching power.

As to how an ACTUAL fight would play out, well on the one hand, Bowe can e considered a "Super-Douglas" of sorts, AND he beat the Holyfield that beat Tyson.

However! Such triangulation can be countered simply by invoking the 2 hidings that Bowe copped from Golota and the fact Tyson bludgeoned him.

We need to ask, what is the common theme with Holyfield and Douglas? They were featherfists! But puncher Golota failed against Tyson despite being taller and stronger and technically adept.

Bowe on the other hand could handle the capacities of Holyfield, MAINLY because he could handle the punch.

But when he met Golota conversely, he demonstratably could not handle the power, thus the weaker performance.

And so when we connect all the dots the Bowe/Tyson match is a very open and intriguing match to consider.

[joeandthebums]

when Lewis fought Mercer it was already in the works of a Seldon fight...

Tyson signed to fight Seldon prior to Lewis signing to fight Mercer.

he didn't want Tyson when he could have after Seldon had he just waited and did the contract?

Tyson-Holyfield had been signed prior to Tyson-Seldon contest taking place.

There was a very small window where Tyson-Lewis negotiations seemed to actually take place - which were a direct result of court actions Lewis took - and resulted in step-aside money being paid.

Once that issue was resolved the two parties never had serious discussion again.

[Elroy1]

Tyson signed to fight Seldon prior to Lewis signing to fight Mercer.



Tyson-Holyfield had been signed prior to Tyson-Seldon contest taking place.

There was a very small window where Tyson-Lewis negotiations seemed to actually take place - which were a direct result of court actions Lewis took - and resulted in step-aside money being paid.

Once that issue was resolved the two parties never had serious discussion again.

How do you pull all this stuff Joe?

You must have a photographic memory of like every article you've ever read!

Either that or you have some well parsed database to store and retrieve this stuff from and a penchant for gathering boxing history.

You know how much I really HATE Historians Joe, and I still stand by that they are generally the LEAST intelligent and most negative influence possible on the sport of boxing.

However you are definitely one of those "specific examples" otherwise!

[joeandthebums]

How do you pull all this stuff Joe?

You must have a photographic memory of like every article you've ever read!

Either that or you have some well parsed database to store and retrieve this stuff from and a penchant for gathering boxing history.

You know how much I really HATE Historians Joe, and I still stand by that they are generally the LEAST intelligent and most negative influence possible on the sport of boxing.

However you are definitely one of those "specific examples" otherwise!

I haven't the programming ability to parse databases - though it's a skill I wish I did possess.

My memory is rather poor, I retain edges of information not the specifics so I rely on my archiving system - plus the internet has so many searchable resources that given enough time and effort most information can be found.

[Elroy1]

I haven't the programming ability to parse databases - though it's a skill I wish I did possess.

My memory is rather poor, I retain edges of information not the specifics so I rely on my archiving system - plus the internet has so many searchable resources that given enough time and effort most information can be found.

Yes yes, I know that, with enough effort and time, I can eventually relocate a lost source.

But the internet can also be obscure when sourcing such material as you often do.

Whatever such system you devised/employ, you are to be commended for your efforts and reliability.

OR maybe you are just too modest
I'm kind of diametrically opposed to you on most issues, for what I see as very good reason (albeit with some fun added in), but to deny your knowledge and qualities would be idiocy imo.

All I am really saying is that I've never found your information to be unreliable several times I checked and thus it can be said that you're very reliable (just not infallilble )

[joeandthebums]

Yes yes, I know that, with enough effort and time, I can eventually relocate a lost source.

But the internet can also be obscure when sourcing such material as you often do.

Yes the internet certainly can have limitations, and some stumbling around is involved sometimes before good information is found but the future can only bring more sources.

Whatever such system you devised/employ, you are to be commended for your efforts and reliability.

Thank you. I've spent some years trying to get my own personal collection in order - with hopefully not quite as many ahead to get it as close to completed as one can.

All I am really saying is that I've never found your information to be unreliable several times I checked and thus it can be said that you're very reliable (just not infallilble )

I would never share anything other than information I have spent time ensuring has credibility.

There is already too much misinformation in circulation.

[billeau2]

Yes I can concur with you on this one Bill (but your still a nut bag).

In fact Bowe often regaled Tyson publically, they were clearly friends from the same neighourhood apparently.

I think, speculatively, that it would be most likely Bowe who would avoid Tyson based on ferocity and punching power.

As to how an ACTUAL fight would play out, well on the one hand, Bowe can e considered a "Super-Douglas" of sorts, AND he beat the Holyfield that beat Tyson.

However! Such triangulation can be countered simply by invoking the 2 hidings that Bowe copped from Golota and the fact Tyson bludgeoned him.

We need to ask, what is the common theme with Holyfield and Douglas? They were featherfists! But puncher Golota failed against Tyson despite being taller and stronger and technically adept.

Bowe on the other hand could handle the capacities of Holyfield, MAINLY because he could handle the punch.

But when he met Golota conversely, he demonstratably could not handle the power, thus the weaker performance.

And so when we connect all the dots the Bowe/Tyson match is a very open and intriguing match to consider.

Bowe and Tyson goes under the catagory of a "fantasy" match because there was no real way they could have met when they were both at peak. Its not an age problem either...its just a matter of the trajectory of their careers. Thing is, outside of peak both men were severely diminished, so pitting either guy against the other when they were diminished tells us about as much as the Tyson Lewis fight.

[billeau2]

I haven't the programming ability to parse databases - though it's a skill I wish I did possess.

My memory is rather poor, I retain edges of information not the specifics so I rely on my archiving system - plus the internet has so many searchable resources that given enough time and effort most information can be found.

Its a real skill and it amazes me that people don't know that with google all you have to do is be verbatum...and thats a great start. Also Wiki is a thing of genius. Its not that the information is great but for kids and for very basic understanding wiki conceptually works so well, and the open sourcing is a brilliant idea....I just think if I had these resources as a kid...

But there is very little excuse for people who don't provide source materials for things that demand them.

having said that... I often compliment you Joe and I feel you deserve it because of how you present material. Your also a great presence on the boards, someone to be emulated frankly.