Holyfield 30/30 Tyson myths

[TAZ-G]

How long have you been watching boxing??? Holyfield wasn't as skilled as Tyson??? Nobody else but Thunder Dome Boxing, thinks that. LoL. Holyfield is arguably the best combination punching HW's ever. On top of that, he is also arguably the greatest CW/LWH Champion ever. Tyson's power ranks amongst the pound for pound but that's about it. And Evander's skills had EVERYTHING to do with him beating Tyson. What the hell is wrong with you!? Do a poll and see how owned you'd get.

Factsonly claps

[Elroy1]

Whoa there champ..

I don't remember saying Evander's skills were not great, nor important factors, nor not among the best.

But come on, there's atleast a half/half split on this issue my friend, popular opinion wise anyway, and it isn't far out to assume that the best Tyson might beat the best Holyfield.

Your one eyed blindness is a little biased I believe. What're you guys, Evander's brothers or something??

[GOD-FR33]

Listen...

Whoa there champ..

I don't remember saying Evander's skills were not great, nor important factors, nor not among the best.

But come on, there's atleast a half/half split on this issue my friend, popular opinion wise anyway, and it isn't far out to assume that the best Tyson might beat the best Holyfield.

Your one eyed blindness is a little biased I believe. What're you guys, Evander's brothers or something??

No. Not at all. Tyson was a one trick pony. One of the strongest HW's in history. I understand that. But Holyfield was not normal. He's already taken Tyson's BEST punches. You get stronger normally as you get older. No? So, Tyson at 30 was still as strong power-wise. That would have always been his only shot to beat Evander. So, I don't care when the fight happened, Evander was on another level from Tyson. You couldn't break him. Tyson you could. The end.

[Elroy1]

No. Not at all. Tyson was a one trick pony. One of the strongest HW's in history. I understand that. But Holyfield was not normal. He's already taken Tyson's BEST punches. You get stronger normally as you get older. No? So, Tyson at 30 was still as strong power-wise. That would have always been his only shot to beat Evander. So, I don't care when the fight happened, Evander was on another level from Tyson. You couldn't break him. Tyson you could. The end.

Well I don't accept that Evander was the be and end all of HW boxing. Only that he was very good and you could never count the man out. But he DID have some lacklustre performances too against poorer opposition than Tyson. And that's okay because no boxer is perfect.

I think labelling Tyson as a 1-trick pony is a bit rich- that MAY have been true of the Tyson Holyfield beat. He had resorted more to a slugger style (although you are correct to an extent in that he never fully abandoned his skills, his opponents just got better too) and he had poor stamina as opposed to his youth. But the younger Tyson cerTainly had greater speed and reflex and certainly employed more mobility and tactic.

I think Tyson was stronger and more powerful though as you said when Evander beat him and I am also in agree that the Tyson which Holyfield beat was a very formiddable version- his best clean victory. Yes, Evander was stronger than Tyson still, which is what I stated earlier myself.

As we all know though, his strength was manufactured through heavy use of steroids and I think it's implausible that natural cruiser Holyfield could have been stronger than natural heavy Tyson without "help". There's a very grey area here, when drugs are involved.

And how about Holyfield's other losses? If you believe same as I do that boxers grow stronger as they get older then you cannot also pick and choose which losses of Evanders you want to write off as he became shot. Likewise, making excuses for earlier losses (such as heart trouble for Moorer) may be excusable on occasion but not recurring. So how about Bowe? Could Bowe beat Tyson? MAybe, this is another open question. The un-roided Holyfield at 205 LOST to Bowe- 10lbs of muscle later, some success. I doubt a 205 Holy could handle Tyson. Moorer? No chance. No version of TYson would EVER lose to Moorer. Because Moorer didn't have the chin to fight Tyson, again, pointing to Evanders physical gifts atleast as much as his skills being instrumental to defeating Tyson.

I just don't know if Holyfield, who always took heavy damage and wasn't ALWAYS so strong without drugs (that 205 guy again!) or even the larger 90's Atlanta LEgend could have handled the faster, more mobile, more on point Tyson that Rooney brought to the table.

I'm not saying Tyson wins or writing off Holyfield but I sure as hell would not lay a dime on Holy vs a prime Tyson. Not very often, but he was and could be broken. And usually I consider the "prime" argument silly or reserve it for older, stronger more experienced versions too. But Tyson was a special fighter.

[juggernaut666]

No. Not at all. Tyson was a one trick pony. One of the strongest HW's in history. I understand that. But Holyfield was not normal. He's already taken Tyson's BEST punches. You get stronger normally as you get older. No? So, Tyson at 30 was still as strong power-wise. That would have always been his only shot to beat Evander. So, I don't care when the fight happened, Evander was on another level from Tyson. You couldn't break him. Tyson you could. The end.

You have so many holes in your post I 'll just leave it at this..Holyfield was around 205/210 at the time of the proposed fight and Tyson at 215/220 was far a superior puncher than when he was post prison that's not even arguable. Accuracy speed go way more than being a bit heavier is the differance.at 5'10 he would be generating the same power add in the speed factor he becomes the better k.o fighter..the only logical thing here is holyfiedl became stronger as a Hw in his 6'2 frame around the mid 90's so its not even plausible comparing Tyson being made for Holyfield in 1990 or 1991 just watch the Bert cooper fight.



Im not even going to bother with the head /footwork its pointless theres absolutely no comparison to even 90/91 Tyson and 96/97 Tyson.

[Elroy1]

You have so many holes in your post I 'll just leave it at this..Holyfield was around 205/210 at the time of the prposed fight and Tyson at 215/220 was far a superior puncher than when he was post prison that's not even arguable. Accuracy speed go way more than being a bit heavier is the differance...the only logical thing here is holyfiedl became stronger as a Hw in his 6'2 frame around the mid 90's so its not even plausible comparing Tyson being made for Holyfield in 1990 or 1991 just watch the Bert cooper fight.

Yes agreed on all counts.. A 205 Holy that was beaten by Bowe I doubt could have won against Tyson and we all know how he achieved his 10-15lb increase.

And naturally the delivery skills of the young Tyson far offsets the 10lb weight advantage of the older Tyson. Except we're not supposed to say that because apparently all we care about is weight right?

[juggernaut666]

Yes agreed on all counts.. A 205 Holy that was beaten by Bowe I doubt could have won against Tyson and we all know how he achieved his 10-15lb increase.

And naturally the delivery skills of the young Tyson far offsets the 10lb weight advantage of the older Tyson. Except we're not supposed to say that because apparently all we care about is weight right?

Well Tyson is the Only fighter ever I knew who carried 215/220 and maintained speed at 5'10,thats a lot of mass in that frame...in this case adding weight would effect his style and make him like a 1975 Frazier and lower moveability. Though obviously even at about 230 he was still skillful and dangerous but the accurate sharp combos went away with it...he was an easy target after 3 rounds and became a small version of foreman really.Actually the only Version of Tyson I have foreman winning against is Tyson 2000.



Holyfield would not survive the Tyson uppercuts in all likely hood , when Tyson hurt or stunned holyfield with a few he just looked at him and reset, the old Tyson would never have done that,he was the best finisher ever.