Hagler was Absolutely the WEAKEST of the Big 4.

[The plunger man]

That fallacy in your logic is when you think that Hagler had it equal to any of the mentioned fighters. He was always hated. Just look at the scores for the Antuofermo fight, Duran fight (nowhere near as close as the judges said), and Bobby Watts I. He was robbed 2 almost 3 times.

I don't hate hagler...I just knew he would never beat a sugar ray Leonard, mentally Leonard just had his number and he was always bitter & jealous of Leonard and that has stayed with hagler his whole life and even now he's still bitter towards Leonard ....who's Bobby watts FFS ..a top 30 fighter ...willie Monroe also decent fighters yeah but that's it...antuofermo was another one...for the life of me he's one of the weakest middlweight champions I have seen for years...yeah tough as nails but his power was non existent and like it or not hagler took his foot of the gas and let the fight get closer and paid the price for it...on the same bill Leonard stopped Benitez ...the point is when it's your moment close the deal...hagler blew it the first time ..hagler keep asking Leonard to come up and face him in his division ...why didn't he go up and face spinks ...he didn't because he knew he would have had his ass handed to him ....Leonard always had the edge over hagler and hagler knew it

[Mr.MojoRisin']

I never got whooped in the gym mongo lol .. again your wrong dago....some athletes never learn you just said am I right ? But you just said if you dedicate and train really hard that you can learn and make it to the top ...make up your mind......now don't make this into some sort of dedication and capacity argument....Leonard had more natural ability in the ring than 99 percent of the fighters out there...his natural ability was superior to haglers , speed, movement , timing and determination, killer instinct ... Leonard had natural talent...that's why Leonard ranks in the top 3 of the most gifted fighters of the last 40 years....not hagler......I know your type your the guy from outside the ring and that's about it......now if your trying to make it sound that I never said you didn't need to harness your ability or dedicate your time and bring the best out of it then your a bigger dummy that I thought .....99 percent of fighters could train 10 years in a gym and never possess the kind of skill Leonard had ...that's a natural talent for the sport and if you will god given...end of subject dago...get back to writing music

The greatest p4p fighter the REAL Sugar Ray wasn't naturally gifted. That immediately defeats your argument buddy boy. I don't understand why you keep intentionally trying to change what I said when it's in writing lol not gonna work well for you. The difference between a club fighter and an all time great has many factors. Trainer, management, etc. all of these things come into play. Some fighters have talent but didn't have the right backing so that talent couldn't grow.

You only provided a blanket statement and said that every all time great fighter you could think of had God given talent. God given talent is being immediately good at something. You are making it out to be this common thing.

Let me ask you... who is more naturally talented Darnell Boone or Adonis Stevenson? Forget for a second about all time great and just focus on these two fighters.

[PivotandRoll]

You call me an idiot for start when we haven't even spoken before ....that's a start isn't it ...I don't mind someone having a different opinion and saying I'm wrong but when you throw that at me I will throw something back right at you .

I think anyone who believes in god is an idiot, so yes. Try not to repeat Floyd's horse****e if you don't want to be called on it.

[The plunger man]

I think anyone who believes in god is an idiot, so yes. Try not to repeat Floyd's horse****e if you don't want to be called on it.

Shouldn't take every word as if it's imprinted in the magna Carter ....I'm also not that religious and it was just a phrase...like the man runs like the wind or that man can drink like a fish.....so if your so naive as to think i actually meant God gave it to him your more than fool for takin it in...now GTFOH frampton man

[The plunger man]

The greatest p4p fighter the REAL Sugar Ray wasn't naturally gifted. That immediately defeats your argument buddy boy. I don't understand why you keep intentionally trying to change what I said when it's in writing lol not gonna work well for you. The difference between a club fighter and an all time great has many factors. Trainer, management, etc. all of these things come into play. Some fighters have talent but didn't have the right backing so that talent couldn't grow.

You only provided a blanket statement and said that every all time great fighter you could think of had God given talent. God given talent is being immediately good at something. You are making it out to be this common thing.

Let me ask you... who is more naturally talented Darnell Boone or Adonis Stevenson? Forget for a second about all time great and just focus on these two fighters.

I didn't say every all time great at all so don't make words up..I said the likes of Robinson,Leonard,Ali,Jones,mayweather are more naturally gifted than 99% of other boxers and that's a fact..there special boxers than cannot be copied or replicated by other fighters so in turn they have a gift.....there born to be boxers and that's why they are top of the tree...look Leonard was more naturally skilled and gifted than hagler and that's a fact...u just don't like it..as for Boone or Stevenson it's irrelevant as there not considered special by the boxing world..this was a topic about one of the modern greats of the sport...

[Mr.MojoRisin']

I didn't say every all time great at all so don't make words up..I said the likes of Robinson,Leonard,Ali,Jones,mayweather are more naturally gifted than 99% of other boxers and that's a fact..there special boxers than cannot be copied or replicated by other fighters so in turn they have a gift.....there born to be boxers and that's why they are top of the tree...look Leonard was more naturally skilled and gifted than hagler and that's a fact...u just don't like it..as for Boone or Stevenson it's irrelevant as there not considered special by the boxing world..this was a topic about one of the modern greats of the sport...

A fighter who rose to the top of the light heavyweight division isn't special? Answer the question or unclog my toilet bich like you were made to.

Like I said and provided evidence of, Robinson wasn't naturally gifted. A fighter can only be as good as their teacher. Some teachers have a wider knowledge than others. The ability to comprehend and therefore incorporate what has been learned equals a great fighter. One trainer might have a lot of boxing knowledge but not all and another might have that little bit extra for that fighter to grow and become great. No fighter save for Graziano and a few others walked into the gym a fighter.

[Anthony342]

U can't have it both ways Ray ....Ray was also guided to become a future champion so he had to have his career the right way...20 fights is 20 fights whether it's hagler or leonard so if your gonna throw stones at Ray then do it with hagler as well...secondly Ray boxed randy shields,floyd mayweather snr and Marcos Geraldo in his 22nd fight and Geraldo went on to face marvin hagler and took his the full distance....i see nothing in vito antuerfermo except a come forward and take loads of punches with his face , he also lacked any kind of punching power for a world class middlweight....let me ask you a question Ray...ali,robinson,louis,duran,leonard,mayweather, holmes,lewis,chavez never lost or Drew to a fringe contender like hagler did ...why is that ? ... As I have always said leonard was a btter all round boxer than hagler...his record shows, he moved up in weight, he beat 4 of the greates fighters if the last 50 years..and he came back to beat hagler at haglers weight after having one fight in 5 years....leonard would have beaten hagler if he never suffered an eye injury in 1982 but he did and we was robbed of that fight...that's my view and most people rate leonard higher than hagler in all time p4p rankings

Leonard may be better, but he still waited until Hagler was well past prime to fight him. He himself even admits that. He could have fought Hagler in 1984, when he made his first comeback, but opted to retire again and wait 3 more years for Hagler to slow down enough after some more battles to fight him. Most believe if this fight had happened sooner, Hagler would've won, most likely a UD, possibly late TKO, so that's why people say they think Hagler is better.

[The plunger man]

Leonard may be better, but he still waited until Hagler was well past prime to fight him. He himself even admits that. He could have fought Hagler in 1984, when he made his first comeback, but opted to retire again and wait 3 more years for Hagler to slow down enough after some more battles to fight him. Most believe if this fight had happened sooner, Hagler would've won, most likely a UD, possibly late TKO, so that's why people say they think Hagler is better.

Who thinks hagler was better ? Leonard's rated higher on almost every single p4p list so not sure where you got that from.....also Duran,hearns,Geraldo all favoured Leonard to beat him.....now under your criteria if hagler lost to Monroe, drew with searles and antuofermo ...plus being taking the distance to a close win over Roberto Duran how do you get to that conclusion and gathered with the fact Leonard beat hagler not the other way round and that's also with the of him having one fight in 5 years and coming of alcoholic and drug abuse and with an old injury ......there's no proof what so ever that hagler could have beaten Leonard going by what are all the facts....1984 he retired because he still had concerns with his eyes and was disappointed with his fight with Kevin Howard ....now no one and I mean no one picked Leonard to beat hagler and was deemed to be a lamb for the slaughter and it's only because of Leonard's belief in himself he knew he could beat him....I am sure u are one of those that said Leonard would get destroyed....funny now that hagler was past his prime and yet I bet you would have put your house on hagler stopping Leonard ...am I right ?

[Larry the boss]

lol...............

[The plunger man]

A fighter who rose to the top of the light heavyweight division isn't special? Answer the question or unclog my toilet bich like you were made to.

Like I said and provided evidence of, Robinson wasn't naturally gifted. A fighter can only be as good as their teacher. Some teachers have a wider knowledge than others. The ability to comprehend and therefore incorporate what has been learned equals a great fighter. One trainer might have a lot of boxing knowledge but not all and another might have that little bit extra for that fighter to grow and become great. No fighter save for Graziano and a few others walked into the gym a fighter.

Shall we say an ATG then trying to mince my words...Stevenson & Boone are irrelevant to the conversation...we talking oonce in a life time fighters ...like robsinson,Leonard,Duran,Ali,Jones and the like..there legends of the sport and Stevenson couldn't carry there jockstraps ....Leonard had more natural ability than hagler and it's a fact....hagler was a workhorse and petronelli said that he wasn't gifted at boxing...he had to work every day and was so insistent on learning and gradually he improved himself....Leonard took to it almost instantly and was winning amatuer titles all the the east coast of America and farther ...that's natural ability and you just don't like it....you talk a good game with never even stepping into a ring but you know nothing about boxing.....your a Brockton kiddie and that's why you don't like people saying anything negative about him.....anybody can fight not every body can box you silly man...where do you get this from
A trainer no matter how good cannot make you throw 5 punches a second...that's inside you you ****in dummy ....no trainer can give you a killer instinct ..that's inside you....some fighters are just more gifted that others and that's in all walks of life ...levels