Are modern fighters better?

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  • LoadedWraps
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    #11
    Originally posted by VG_Addict
    What are your thoughts on the age-old question of whether modern fighters are really better than older fighters? Where do you stand?
    This question is old in the sense that it doesn't need to be asked anymore.

    My short answer is definitely not. Modern fighters have the advantages of modern medicine and nutritional knowledge, and that's it. Fighters in the past were part of a deeper talent pool, worked harder, were more active as fighters, and were required to have higher conditioning. These days, despite the advances of medicine and science, fighters at the elite level get away with fighting very few times a year, and probably 1/10 of them actually maintains fighting shape year round. Even all else considered equal, the talent pool disparity is a huge factor. There are less fighters, less trainers, less truly knowledgable trainers, and less competition. It doesn't take a scientist to determine from that alone, that a smaller talent pool means it takes less to make it to the top, and it takes less to succeed at all levels. The lack of boxing knowledge passed on by trainers and masters, and the overall lesser knowledge many "trainers" have today means fighters learn less and less is required of them to "qualify" to enter the ring, to win at the AM level, to become pro, to challenge for a title, etc etc.

    In summary, boxing is the only sport I know of that is moving backwards in that aspect, unlike sports like Basketball or Baseball, which you could argue and support the exact opposite.

    Would Babe Ruth be effective in todays MLB? doubtful. On the other hand, Barry Bonds would be the GOAT in any era. Why? Rule changes, a smaller league, less talent, (Ruth didnt' even play against African Americans or latinos) among other things.

    On the other hand, you would never convince me that fighters like Floyd, Pac, RJJ, or Wlad would have the same success in the golden era of boxing. The odds are just to great against them. Floyd for example would of had to clear through 48 fighters in much, much less time, and he wouldn't have been able to challenge for a title so early, and even if he did win it, he would have multiple defenses the same year. There is no guarantee he wouldn't be undefeated, but the chances of it are much, much, much slimmer. Wlad especially, he would be a club fighter in the past, the talent pool in the HW division was much larger and richer, despite the greater average size of HW today.

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    • joeandthebums
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      #12
      Originally posted by Humean
      I don't think there has been a decline in skill from the 40s at all.
      I did not say that was my opinion, but seems to be a recurring theme among those that state a decline in standards from the past, as the 40's is regularly sighted.

      Originally posted by Humean
      There were certainly some talented fighters then but each decade since has produced a lot more talent for me (maybe not the 50s).
      At the moment I am somewhat blinkered to the Welterweight division, so my comments were made with that weight class in mind, which currently I believe had greater depth to it than at any other time.

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      • BKM-2010
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        #13
        Originally posted by LoadedWraps
        On the other hand, you would never convince me that fighters like Floyd, Pac, RJJ, or Wlad would have the same success in the golden era of boxing. The odds are just to great against them. Floyd for example would of had to clear through 48 fighters in much, much less time, and he wouldn't have been able to challenge for a title so early, and even if he did win it, he would have multiple defenses the same year. There is no guarantee he wouldn't be undefeated, but the chances of it are much, much, much slimmer. Wlad especially, he would be a club fighter in the past, the talent pool in the HW division was much larger and richer, despite the greater average size of HW today.
        On this I disagree. The first 3 fighters you mentioned are widely seen as the 3 greatest fighters of their generations. That caliber of fighter would be great in any era, they are not the 'typical' modern fighter as their accomplishments and abilities in their primes show. They're not suitable examples.

        Secondly, I don't know how your anology below works, if these guys are fighting in that era they are born into it so they would be just as adapted as everybody else of that era so they'd have that same mental toughness. In that case they'd probably be greater because they did have physical advantages over the rest which is a product of modern times.

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        • ironalex
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          #14
          Originally posted by VG_Addict
          What are your thoughts on the age-old question of whether modern fighters are really better than older fighters? Where do you stand?
          These posters who are saying modern day fighters are much better etc and comparisons to athletes such as runners getting faster etc and athletes evolving because of nutrition are forgetting the fact that this isn't like any of those sports it's the hurt business. Fighters were better back in the day because of their mentality - they were hungry, they truly knew what poor was, also there was a lot more competition and a lot less distractions. They fought much more and had more experience. To me 70-80s was the best era for boxing because it kinda merged the nutrition/technique with the hunger and experience of the true old school fighters. But to answer the question, no. Do u really think Floyd would go 48-0 in the fabulous 4 era? Or the era of Ray Robinson etc? No way.

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          • Suckmedry
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            #15
            Originally posted by ironalex
            These posters who are saying modern day fighters are much better etc and comparisons to athletes such as runners getting faster etc and athletes evolving because of nutrition are forgetting the fact that this isn't like any of those sports it's the hurt business. Fighters were better back in the day because of their mentality - they were hungry, they truly knew what poor was, also there was a lot more competition and a lot less distractions. They fought much more and had more experience. To me 70-80s was the best era for boxing because it kinda merged the nutrition/technique with the hunger and experience of the true old school fighters. But to answer the question, no. Do u really think Floyd would go 48-0 in the fabulous 4 era? Or the era of Ray Robinson etc? No way.
            Yes because people aren't going hungry today

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            • IronDanHamza
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              #16
              Some are, some aren't.

              Overall? It's a question that's going to be debated for eternity.

              I tend to not bother arguing the point and just enjoy the fighters of the past aswell as the present.

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              • Ray Corso
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                #17
                .............Would Babe Ruth be effective in todays MLB? doubtful. On the other hand, Barry Bonds would be the GOAT in any era. Why? Rule changes, a smaller league, less talent, (Ruth didnt' even play against African Americans or latinos) among other things


                this is why the past greats don't get their due with younger generation fans!
                Lets see Bonds play right field instead of left, with Ruths glove!
                Lets see Bonds pitch against the best in a World Series and be considered in the top 3 lefty pitchers!
                No one ran on Ruth in the outfield and if you read any real info you'd know his defensive p[lay was outstanding. Look at ALL the numbers especially WAR and see how Bonds compares, he couldn't carry Ruths bats, literially!!

                Their are NO New training techniques established in the past 20 years
                You can look at Rigo who is the ONLY fighter who can compare to Pep.
                Do you really want to break down form and techniques to compare Wlad to Joe Louis? There is NOTHING Wlad does better than Louis did other than being tall.

                Athletes today in competition are bigger, faster, stronger.......and dumber!
                In boxing you rarely see a fighter exhausted at the end of a fight, you never come away with a sense of desperation viewing a fighter today.
                Great fighters do appear every generation and most of them can compete in any era but the amount of titles avaliable now waters down the importance of a belt. The fans are delusional about recognizing a belt holder and a great fighter.
                The greatest fighter to this day operated in the 40's and for 25 years!
                He was the greatest Middleweight & Welterweight champion of the World and no one since brings the fundimentals and intangibles he demonstrated.

                joebum..........."At the moment I am somewhat blinkered to the Welterweight division, so my comments were made with that weight class in mind, which currently I believe had greater depth to it than at any other time"

                problem here is that the two best (Floyd & Manny are no where on a top ten welter list. So how is the current list the best.
                Compared to Robinsons era;
                Fritz Zivic
                Marty Servo
                Sammy Angott
                Ralph Zanelli
                Henry Armstrong
                Jackie Wilson
                Kid Gavilan
                Charlie Fusari

                don't try to compare Floyds opponents to these men;
                Robert Guererro
                M. Madiana
                Canelo ( a kid of 23?)
                an old Manny
                then all the "name" guys far out from their prime.
                While Mayweather was in a "forced" retirement Robinson was challenging and beating the Middleweight Champ who NO Middleweights wanted to fight!

                Today the great fighters are Rigo & Chocolatito and its not about their records to date its about their Methods & Techniques on display!

                Hell the 70s and 80s are superior to this era at welter too!
                Ray.

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                • Bundana
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                  #18
                  Originally posted by LoadedWraps
                  Even all else considered equal, the talent pool disparity is a huge factor. There are less fighters, less trainers, less truly knowledgable trainers, and less competition.
                  Are there fewer fighters today than, say, 50 years ago?

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                  • BKM-2010
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                    #19
                    Originally posted by Bundana
                    Are there fewer fighters today than, say, 50 years ago?
                    It's more like locations have shifted. Boxing gyms in the US have decreased a lot over the decades while slavic countries like Russia have had a big rise in fighters.

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                    • Scott9945
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                      #20
                      Originally posted by BKM-2010
                      It's more like locations have shifted. Boxing gyms in the US have decreased a lot over the decades while slavic countries like Russia have had a big rise in fighters.
                      In the US there were a lot more local club shows 50 years ago. Young fighters were able to stay busier and develop their skills instead of being microwaved like they are now.

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