Originally posted by BattlingNelson
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Analysing Joe Gans
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Originally posted by Scott9945 View PostJoe Gans had an amazing career considering he died at 35 and had so much against him.
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Originally posted by joeandthebums View PostExcept for Nolan insistence of Gans making weight with equipment on prior to the first Gans-Nelson contest, (which Nelson also had to endure) what other examples are there?
http://www.thefightcity.com/fight-ci...-4-old-master/
I believe that Ay**** and Scott's book claims that the 133 limit was probably in place specifically for Gans during his reign because he sometimes had trouble making the weight.
There was plenty stacked against Gans back then. Whatever his unscrupulous manager had him do, It was probably necessary for Gans to go along with the program. He may have been popular with many fans but not necessarily with the boxing powers that be or even all sportswriters at the time.Last edited by JimEarl; 08-12-2015, 04:00 AM.
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Originally posted by JimEarl View PostNo according to William Gildea's book it was only the contractual requirement for Gans who had to weigh in three times, the last upon entering the ring at fight time. He had to forgo his hand wraps to make the weight and so he broke his hand in the 26th round.
Gans did agree to each demand set by Nolan, despite their nature due to his desire for the large purse.
Originally posted by JimEarl View PostI believe the 133 limit was in place specifically for Gans during his reign because he sometimes had trouble making the weight. He may have been popular with many fans but not necessarily with the boxing powers that be or even all sportswriters at the time.
That was why I asked the question, because Gans did seem to have a pretty good time of it.
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Originally posted by joeandthebums View PostHaven't read the book so interesting. Not heard about the hand wraps.
Gans did agree to each demand set by Nolan, despite their nature due to his desire for the large purse.
That was why I asked the question, because Gans did seem to have a pretty good time of it.Last edited by JimEarl; 08-12-2015, 04:11 AM.
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Originally posted by The Old LefHook View PostWrong assumption about my standards. I always send the moderns back in time to fight the oldsters under their conditions, unless otherwise instructed. I can do it both ways, but that is my default.
But note that I have not sent Gans or a mythical opponent anywhere yet. I have not mentioned anyone that he would or would not beat, I only placed him roughly in the top 25.
Prospectively, as I learn more about some of Gans' opponents, I might gain a sense of his proper placement. I would first like some kind of breakdown on the styles of those he did defeat, which I am not even sure is available. I have no problem seeing that Gans can handle a head-first brawler. I am more concerned how he would deal with other styles and techniques that were not fully developed in his time.
My strong guess would be that Joe never even dealt with a consistent high guard. I am not at this point aware if he ever faced a mover a la Tunney or Mike Gibbons or near their quality. I know he never saw a peekaboo. Of course Gans is likely to show the moderns a few things they never saw, as well. However, combination punching was a different animal then. Fifteen blows coming at you in a series is different from rwo or three. I am extremely confident that Joe never dealt with modern combination punching.
Gans, will, however, enjoy a huge advantage in that the old horsehair gloves allowed less careless combination punching than today's pillows. Their padding could be (and often was) kneeded to the side, exposing raw knuckle covered only by leather. Gans is likely to win a few mythical matchups (which is what these are) simply on knuckle damage incurred by his modern opponents.
So ranking Gans only in the top 25 so far, without more detail, I think has more to do with my lack of knowledge of the range of styles he faced than whose time period will have home field advantage.
A scenario I find interesting is to let them fight with any eqipment they choose, modern or ancient. The modern boys would enjoy the extra blocking advantages of bigger gloves, while Gans' smaller gloves would retain their potential to slip through smaller cracks. Joe will get to pick a different pair of shoes, maybe with some tassles.
I never consider anything but a 15 rounder for this type of contest. One of my other consistencies is that I will not consider 12 round mythical matchups, which shows the scorn in which I hold contemporary standards.
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