Pre-1960 and Post-1960 boxers

[Weltschmerz]

You keep reverting back to your agenda.. Claiming Carnera lost to "subpar opposition".. Yes he did, but only after winning over 80 fights and his losses being at the tail-end of his career...

Why do you decline to address how Lewis, Wlad, Vitali & Briggs all lost by KO to subpar opposition when they were in there "Prime" unlike Carnera did or Willard did...

Why do you decline to answer how it was a "ATG Top 5 Fighter" who KOd Willard & Carnera. unlike the mediocre journeyman who KOd Lewis, Wlad, Vitali & Briggs..

You assumption Lewis, Wlad, Vitali are all "Top Athletes with Great Footwork & timing".. is laughable and simple untrue. Maybe you can post up a video of them displaying "Great Footwork"... i have already posted up a video showing the agility of foot from Carnera....

Vitali looked like his feet were nailed to the canvas
Lewis looked like he had two-left feet
Wlad is the most robotic champion in history

Let's not even start to talk steroids, PEDs, weight gain, convictions etc.

You are in total denial of the facts put in front of you, with your refusal to address the questions put to you. proof of your agenda.

You can refer back to my point that Povetkin would beat Carnera, as would many other high caliber fighters. Ha ha, anyway we can agree to disagree. If I think of historically great HW's, I think of Marciano, Dempsey, etc., not Carnera. If Jack Sharkey could demolish Carnera, what makes you think Povetkin could not, or David Haye for that matter. Carnera couldn't handle smaller fighters with speed and power and just some ability of movement.

I don't see great footwork or movement with Carnera, call it denial if you will.

[sonnyboyx2]

You can refer back to my point that Povetkin would beat Carnera, as would many other high caliber fighters. Ha ha, anyway we can agree to disagree. If I think of historically great HW's, I think of Marciano, Dempsey, etc., not Carnera. If Jack Sharkey could demolish Carnera, what makes you think Povetkin could not, or David Haye for that matter. Carnera couldn't handle smaller fighters with speed and power and just some ability of movement.

I don't see great footwork or movement with Carnera, call it denial if you will.

How many times do i need to tell you... i have never said Carnera is or was a great fighter..

You have let me into your psyche here.. i am finished with you and will never again answer or respond to anything you post on this forum. I thought is strange when you put up Povetkin, but to now put up "David Haye" well that say's it all. That tells me everything i need to know about you.

[Bundana]

I am indeed saying his chin was superior to both. Vitalie was rocked by Sanders....its hard to catch but it happens in the first round. If you watch
Ali take the shot he did from Frazier and get up, or Carnera deal with Max bauer's textbook right that floored him, I do not see Vitalie getting up from either of these shots. I do acknowledge this is an opinion. But even in the lewis fight Vitalie took good shots and handled them well, but seemed to be slowing down and less aggressive as the shots were coming. Carnera would actually get more aggressive when attacked and took some amazing shots in so doing.

This forum is getting weirder and weirder! A pretend "fight" between too actors is being seriously analyzed, and used to illustrate proper boxing technique anno 1899 - and now we're being told, that Carnera had a better chin than Vitali! I wonder, what's next?...

[Weltschmerz]

How many times do i need to tell you... i have never said Carnera is or was a great fighter..

You have let me into your psyche here.. i am finished with you and will never again answer or respond to anything you post on this forum. I thought is strange when you put up Povetkin, but to now put up "David Haye" well that say's it all. That tells me everything i need to know about you.

David Haye is speedy and powerful, he would KO Primo Carnera. Don't be so narrow minded.

[billeau2]

This forum is getting weirder and weirder! A pretend "fight" between too actors is being seriously analyzed, and used to illustrate proper boxing technique anno 1899 - and now we're being told, that Carnera had a better chin than Vitali! I wonder, what's next?...

Well, I make observations and process what I see. When you teach actors stage combat you always teach them what things are supposed to look like so they can exxagerate them for the scene. Actors are able to illustrate a fight properly in this manner. Richard Burton was a master fencer, and was able to do fight scenes that were realistic. sinatra learned how to use Judo from Cagney in the manchurian candidate. So why would two actors, taking a small sequence from a fight, not be able to illustrate technique properly?

Carnera fought many more times than Vitali and only went down a few times. What great puncher did Vitalie fight? When did Vitalie take a shot like the one bauer delivered? And Vitalie was busted up against an out of shape Lewis. Sanders also rocked his boat.

I certainly understand if you don't agree with a conclusion but in the search for understanding if we have sources why not use them?

[Bundana]

Well, I make observations and process what I see. When you teach actors stage combat you always teach them what things are supposed to look like so they can exxagerate them for the scene. Actors are able to illustrate a fight properly in this manner. Richard Burton was a master fencer, and was able to do fight scenes that were realistic. sinatra learned how to use Judo from Cagney in the manchurian candidate. So why would two actors, taking a small sequence from a fight, not be able to illustrate technique properly?

Carnera fought many more times than Vitali and only went down a few times. What great puncher did Vitalie fight? When did Vitalie take a shot like the one bauer delivered? And Vitalie was busted up against an out of shape Lewis. Sanders also rocked his boat.

I certainly understand if you don't agree with a conclusion but in the search for understanding if we have sources why not use them?

You are of course entitled to your opinion - though my guess is, that most people will find the clip in question hilarious rather than instructional.

Yes, Vitali was indeed busted up against Lewis, and quite badly so... but what that has to do with his chin, I fail to understand. I think you will find very few people in the boxing community, who will support your contention that Carnera had a stronger chin than Vitali.

[Humean]

You are of course entitled to your opinion - though my guess is, that most people will find the clip in question hilarious rather than instructional.

Yes, Vitali was indeed busted up against Lewis, and quite badly so... but what that has to do with his chin, I fail to understand. I think you will find very few people in the boxing community, who will support your contention that Carnera had a stronger chin than Vitali.

There is certainly a big difference with getting hit by the likes of Lennox Lewis (even with heavier gloves) than a guy like Max Baer, both in terms of force generated and in the quality of the punches.

[The Old LefHook]

One thing is certain, Primo had a granite chin. He also had decent, basic footwork. His punching technique was terrible. I am sure he beats Vitaly or Lewis because he could not hurt them even if he accidentally found them. Vlad had a toddler's chin, and that might get him in trouble, but I would pick him to beat Primo, as well.

I think Sonny's points are made. Now others accuse him of overstating them. I don't think so. He only had a weird choice of adjectives. To say Primo is more agile than Vlad is like saying the werewolf is better looking than the creature from the black lagoon, and strikes the ear oddly. I would have said not as ugly.

[soul_survivor]

Why is so much time being taken up by conversing about Primo and how he might compare to Lewis or Wlad. He compares badly, that's obvious, but that doesn't somehow mean all pre-1960s fighters compare badly. Come on folks.