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Oh yeah and JMM vs Pacman
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Ali could possibly fill this in by himself with what he did in the ring but I'd like to add Duran, Leonard, Hagler and Robinson to the list of "5 fighters" who could be a part of a top 5 all time fight for the abilty to live up to the Hype all the time... with no disrespect the the many fighters who could also top the same list.Comment
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Originally posted by Yogi
Why are you completely obsessed with bobick? can you even give us a link relating to ali ducking bobick? Why would Ali duck bobick? He never ducked Foreman, Frazier, Lyle, Shavers? Went on to fight Holmes when he had nothing left in the tank? Why the **** of all people, would he duck bobick? It defies logic.Comment
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Yeah sure, I'm guilty of being "completely obsessed" with a guy that I've brought up what...once, maybe twice in the last four or five months?Originally posted by Heckler
If that constitutes being "completely obessesed" with a fighter, what the hell is the proper wording for you & others who feel this need to talk about Ali, Foreman, Frazier, Marciano, etc, etc, nearly every single day that I log on here?
And I've already stated my source on here a few times as to where I got that info and therefore formed my opinion, which just happens to be the same opinion as the MSG matchmaker/president of that time...
Teddy Brenner's contemporary opinion on that Ali/Bobick situation is ~> than some Ali fan's opinion on a message board some 30 years later.
Do you own a library card, Heckler?
If so, head down to your local library, check out Brenner's book "Only The Ring Was Square", and then come back and tell me that the actual MSG matchmaker/president from that time is completely wrong in what he wrote in that book...Ok?Comment
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P.S. Hindsight is different, Heckler.Comment
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Ive never heard one reputable historian say that Ali ducked bobick, obviously brenner did though. I respect your opinion i just dont understand it, one guy comes out claiming Ali ducked bobick and you agree with it even though it completely defies logic. Its not a widely believed theory, nor one that is common knowledge throughout the boxing community. I just can't understand why Ali would duck an average joe boxer (knocked out easily by norton and JOHN TATE, Only win against an opponent worth mention THE MIGHTY CHUCK WEPNER) at that time when he went on to fight superior, more intimidating oppositionComment
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ali frazier 1
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foreman lyle
dempsey willard
marciano walcot1Comment
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You've got to consider the source, Heckler, as it wasn't only "one guy"...it was the guy who was most responsible for doing the work in putting that whole Ali/Bobick, Norton/Lyle card together, and actually signed the fights.Originally posted by Heckler
If you were to read that book by Brenner, you would probably (almost definately) see that the guy came across as being completely honest all throughout...The whole book is littered with "tell it like it is" insider stories, including excellant details from the talked about Moore/Robinson fight, the background behind the controversial Gavilan/Graham fight, fixed fights in both the U.S and in Europe (involving Urtain), etc., etc...Lots of very detailed "insiders" stuff that you probably won't find on the internet, including very good details surrounding the whole Ali/Bobick situation.
And see...your comments about Bobick there is why I followed up with that "P.S." comment about hindsight being different. Bobick was not considered no "average joe boxer" at that time, as he had an undefeated record of 38-0 with the vast majority of those wins being via the knockout route...He was also the talk of the Heavyweight scene around that time (his photo frequented the cover for the boxing magazines, as well as getting featured stories written about him in magazines that had nothing with the sport...like People Magazine and the like) and was considered a very dangerous opponent. Hindsight tells us that he wasn't as good as the hype that surrounded him at that time, but in late 1976/early 1977 when the Ali/Bobick fight was discussed, he wasn't percived as the faulty fighter that we view him nowadays...He was considered a very dangerous opponent by the boxing community, as evidence by his high ranking inside the top three or four, the tremendous amount of hype & many stories written on him in the boxing mags, the undefeated record, and the fact that he was considered a "pick 'em" when he stepped in there against Norton (who had just outfought Ali in their third encounter and might've generally been viewed as sort of the uncrowned champion).Comment
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I read the book years ago (yes I got it from the library) so to the best of my 20 year plus memory I will try to accurately recall what Yogi is alluding to (and attempting to bait you and butterfly if you haven't figured it out by now).Originally posted by Heckler
Now, Bobick did have an impressive albeit padded record at the time and was being touted as a legitimate heavyweight championship threat.
From what I remember reading about that potential fight, Ali saw Bobick at the time as being a potential risk, and because Bobick was white, Ali was apprehensive of taking the fight. The reason being that Ali did not want to lose the title to a white man as he felt it may diminish him as a black role model.
How's my memory Yogi? It has been a long time.
You have to take into account this is Brenner's spin on the story and whether it is embelished or exaggerated only those close to the story would know for sure. Remember, Brenner had a book to sell so it always makes sense to provide and elaborate on every all-important "little known fact" angle. Take what you want from it. I take very little from it. The very fact that this is never referred to by any biographical or historical account of Ali leaves me to wonder just how apprehensive Ali really was, or was it really just a preference that he would rather lose his title to a black man if he were to lose it at all.
When Ali fought Trevor Berbick the plan (if Ali had have won) was for him to next challenge Mike Weaver for the WBA title. Ali (again if he had have won) then wanted a huge money unification showdown with the winner of Holmes-Cooney to which Ali publicly stated at the time he thought Cooney would win. Sounded like the 40 year old Ali (after allegedly ducking Bobick according to Brenner) was targeting the more dangerous Cooney...Comment
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Thrilla in Manilla
Hagler/Hearns
Duran/SRL 1
MAB/Morrales 1
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