Why Dempsey Louis and Marchiano were Heavyweghts not Cruiserweights

[Elroy1]

Part of the reason the "modernists have such a problem conceiving of this scenerio is because no heavyweight fights on the inside anymore!

If we took Ali and Frazier and made them in the mold of todays fighters then Frazier would get destroyed by Ali....And this is how many view Vlad's prowess. They have no concept of what it would be like if a fighter like....even Hollyfield was allowed to work inside, and how fast either Klitschko would probably crumble if a specialist like Marciano was going to work at that range.

Nobody who suggests that Marciano or Frazier could even land a single punch on Wladimir, let alone even hurt him with one can be given any serious consideration at all. That's why nobody bothered to reply.

The more obvious reasoning why being that back in the crude days of those guys no boxer was adept at keeping opponents at range. Foreman used his size and strength to achieve it via pushing his opponents off him, with good results. Guys like LEnnox and Wladimir achieved it by keeping them at the end of their jab and using superior timing to skip out of way or step forward and clinch at just the right moment and tie them up, or via counterpunching.

Infighting is of far less importance today because the punches are now so hard that only the thickest, heaviest bull type fighters with very solid chins can work it.

In my opinion the only boxer of modern HW significance who would be devastating using swarming tactics is none other than Mike Tyson. This is a very reasonable opinion. Marciano/Frazier are not.

[Elroy1]

Your post is roughly 90 percent hyperbole. Your point can be reduced to "athletes have more specialized diets in this day and age."

First off there is no absolute proof that what was considered a good diet then was not correct. Basic nutrirional science states that the quality of proteins is such that animal proteins are the best source for the basic amino acids that build muscle....boxers eating steak does not violate that, it happens that todays people prefer fish and chicken, that could easily change tomorrow (though lactic acid production caused by red meat is a problem with muscle faigue)....THERE ARE VIRTUALLY NO NUTRITIONAL RULES THAT DEMONSTRATE ANY VARIATION FROM THE BASICS OF NUTRITIONAL SCIENCE. You are a pinhead that does not understand that.

You again assett that athletes are more powerful and explosive in boxing today....no proof whatsoever.

What people are finding is in fact that basic unprocessed lean forms of protein with smaller carbo levels are the best diets...these diets vary by specialized training routines....If a boxer's diet was so bad why could they perform so much better than today's fighters over the long haul? You buy the hyperbole Elroy, but the science shows nothing of the sort that you assert.

Even physical modes of training like Pilates, yoga and other forms of explosive training show that the training routines of the bygone eras were a lot more effective than the weight training dominated 70s, 80,s and even 90s. A pilates routine has more in common with a boxer's routine back in the day, than many bulk building techniques.

So keep up with the hyperbole and BS...I like desroying the likes of these arguments in these threads because it will always be in cyberspace. Ignorance destroyed for all to see....because there is alas, no proof that a fighter today is better, or even as well conditioned as fighters of a bygone era...period.

You've done nothing less than expose yourself as a complete fool. I don't really know what else to say. Your in complete denial of everything around you. As if you have been living in a cell without electricity for 30 years and had ppl bring you food.

There are treatments for agoraphobia now mate. You don't even have to leave the house to get it. A doctor would probably come to your house

[Elroy1]

You see how ignorant you are? There is no proof that any supplements enhance training any more than the snake oil and other concoctions sold in those days did any good. Show me one shred of scientific evidence that a supplement in a healthy athlete demonstrated a real, repeatable, tangible degree of physiological acceleration compared to a control.....Go ahead!

Why do you think athletes take steriods? Even steriods are such that most of the advances are to mask their detection...We have known for some time that certain hormones help us heal and grow....hence steriodal medicines. Ya pin head!

Not exactly sure where you were going with the steroid thing there? You seem to have shot your own argument

Yes, we can google the results of every study done on supplements when they're developed against their placebo group and verify their validity whenever, I don't think I need to invest time and source them. I doubt anyone reading would take you seriously enough to doubt it.

But just ask yourself, why in the hell would all athletes invest so heavily in these expensive training aids if they were no good?

Money has proved to be the best measure of what works. Funny about that!

[billeau2]

Nobody who suggests that Marciano or Frazier could even land a single punch on Wladimir, let alone even hurt him with one can be given any serious consideration at all. That's why nobody bothered to reply.

The more obvious reasoning why being that back in the crude days of those guys no boxer was adept at keeping opponents at range. Foreman used his size and strength to achieve it via pushing his opponents off him, with good results. Guys like LEnnox and Wladimir achieved it by keeping them at the end of their jab and using superior timing to skip out of way or step forward and clinch at just the right moment and tie them up, or via counterpunching.

Infighting is of far less importance today because the punches are now so hard that only the thickest, heaviest bull type fighters with very solid chins can work it.

In my opinion the only boxer of modern HW significance who would be devastating using swarming tactics is none other than Mike Tyson. This is a very reasonable opinion. Marciano/Frazier are not.

:lol Im speechless, you are either an imbecile, or living in Mom's basement for a long time....or both? But alas you gave me a great laugh....why yes Eldunce...its quite true that fighters at that time had no concept what so ever of range....despite having invented the sport from fencing and all....and indeed only the toughest fighters now can work it out....lol you rock

[billeau2]

You've done nothing less than expose yourself as a complete fool. I don't really know what else to say. Your in complete denial of everything around you. As if you have been living in a cell without electricity for 30 years and had ppl bring you food.

There are treatments for agoraphobia now mate. You don't even have to leave the house to get it. A doctor would probably come to your house

Say nothing...this post has about as much accurate info as any of your other posts. Please restore my faith in humanity and tell me you are thirteen or ******ed....

[billeau2]

Not exactly sure where you were going with the steroid thing there? You seem to have shot your own argument

Yes, we can google the results of every study done on supplements when they're developed against their placebo group and verify their validity whenever, I don't think I need to invest time and source them. I doubt anyone reading would take you seriously enough to doubt it.

But just ask yourself, why in the hell would all athletes invest so heavily in these expensive training aids if they were no good?

Money has proved to be the best measure of what works. Funny about that!

Athletes do a lot of things....Marquez drinks Urine. I happen to know friends of Conte and his initial foray was into trying to replace very rare trace elements....But the science has not been established. It can be esatblished that when human beings are exposed to sugars and proteins they get bigger...not healthier though. We are big and have epic amounts of diabetes and heart disease....the kids in high school are huge and consume vast amounts of sugar. We also have more access to proteins which help people reach more mass.....none of this involves supplements. I asked you to show me one study not all of them you dunce.

I know you can't. You can't because there is no proof of any supplements causing incredible gains in athletes. I just told you what there is proof of. Training aids are great....but the fact remains that boxers fight less rounds with less skills today. Name five heavyweights today that can fight inside. Your excuse for this is comical.

There is no magic nutritional science that has revolutionized sports psychology maesro.....

[Suckmedry]

Am i actually still reading Elroys crap ? Whats it been like 3 months now?

[TBear]

I let it go awhile but I believe it is time to park yet another

"Belittle histories heavyweights in the name of modern heavyweights thread"!

thread locked, and guys let's try to keep it civil in the future.