If Rocky Marciano would of..........

[RockyMarcianofan00]

1st thats only like 4% and 2nd Like tunney and what should be jefferies (if he didn't fight johnson) he perfected retiring on top, he probably had about 5-8 good fights left but he didn't want retire on his stool just like Ali didn't.

[Southpaw Stinger]

yeah, foreman had a 92 or 93% ko rate before he came back in 1987.

Thats true.

[SuzieQ49]

Dempsey, Louis, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson at least go 49-0 against ROCKY'S competition

im glad this was brought up. i totally disagree with this.




the ultimate question is...........


how would these guys do against marcianos competition having to GO THROUGH THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES MARCIANO WENT THROUGHT ENTERING HIS FIGHTS?


not many, if any.



frazier? no he wouldnt. he was burnt out after 36 fights. I dont think he makes it to 49-0 without burning out or showing up overweight and getting upset. having to go through the circumstances marciano went through early on, and all the wars.......frazier would never last.


liston? nope. he lost to marty marshall when he was young. having to go through the same circmustances rocky went through early in his career, liston would lose a fight or 2.


mike tyson- NOPE, he couldnt make it to 40-0 without getting upset by buster douglas a much lesser fighter than charles and walcott. i see tyson getting upset at least 1 along the way due to showing up out of shape.


as u see i could go on and on, but most of these guys didnt have what it takes to be able to go 49-0 against marcianos competition UNDER THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES MARCIANO WENT THROUGH ENTERING HIS FIGHTS. that included very early in marcianos career when he was thrown in against top prospects to pad there records. marciano didnt even have goldman start training him until after his 10th pro fight. its amazing rock escaped outta there 10-0 considering in most of those 10 fights he was the underdog entering it.

[SuzieQ49]

ut what GREATS did he beat

he beat 3 great ezzard charles, archie moore, and jersey joe walcott?



what greats did holmes beat?

what greats did liston beat outside of patterson?

what greats did jack johnson beat?


what greats did lennox lewis beat(holyfield was long gone and he deserved the 2nd fight)?


what greats did mike tyson beat?


what greats did jack dempsey beat?


what greats did frazier beat outside of ali?







I can critzize everyone like the way u are doing with marciano

[smasher]

frazier?...frazier would never last.


liston? nope. he lost to marty marshall when he was young. having to go through the same circmustances rocky went through early in his career, liston would lose a fight or 2.


mike tyson- NOPE, he couldnt make it to 40-0 without getting upset by buster douglas a much lesser fighter than charles and walcott. i see tyson getting upset at least 1 along the way due to showing up out of shape.


its amazing rock escaped outta there 10-0 considering in most of those 10 fights he was the underdog entering it.

Frazier only lost to two fighters his entire career. Ali who is #1 or #2 all-time (whom Frazier also beat) and Foreman arguably the strongest heavyweight puncher ever and an all-time top 10 havyweight champion. So that leaves one opponent (Foreman) that Frazier fought who he didn't beat. So the question then becomes, What later Marciano opponent would have beaten Frazier?

Liston losing to Marshall was only his 8th fight and Marshall was more experienced than Liston at the time and a far cry from a prelim fighter. Marshall would fight many world class name opponents in his career. None of Marciano's first 10 opponents ever amounted to anything resembling a world class fighter. Liston suffered an injury (broken jaw)early in the fight which no doubt affected his performance. Liston later avenged this loss. So the question then becomes, What early Marciano opponent would have beaten Liston ?

Buster Douglas overall reach, size and strength was a major factor which contributed to Tyson losing and it was the only fight Tyson lost until Holyfield. So the question then becomes, What later Marciano opponent would have beaten Tyson?

One reason Marciano was such an underdog in his early fights was because of how bad he looked. Sam Silverman co-promoter for Marciano's early fights described Marciano as "this kid's got nothing. He can punch alright but I've never seen a fighter as clumsy. The kid doesn't know what he's doing out there."

What about Dempsey, Louis, Ali, Foreman, Holmes.....

WHAT IS MEANT BY THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES MARCIANO WENT THROUGH ENTERING HIS FIGHTS?

[SuzieQ49]

Frazier only lost to two fighters his entire career. Ali who is #1 or #2 all-time (whom Frazier also beat) and Foreman arguably the strongest heavyweight puncher ever and an all-time top 10 havyweight champion. So that leaves one opponent (Foreman) that Frazier fought who he didn't beat. So the question then becomes, What later Marciano opponent would have beaten Frazier?

would frazier be able to get through marcianos first 10 fights under the same circumstances marciano went through, and escape without a loss?

marciano had virtually no amatuer experience, and wasnt even being trained by goldman then. he was thrown into big prospects like 26-0 eddie ross and 15-1 bobby quinn using marciano to pad there record. would frazier be able to escape there without a loss going through the same circumstances marciano went through entering the fights? marciano had barely any amatuer experience and he was without goldman


frazier nearly lost to oscar bonavena in 66. yet frazier had tons of amatuer experience. what makes you think going under the same circumstances marciano was going through entering his fights, he would be able to get past roland lastarza in 1950? marciano was very inexerpeicned against world class fighters when he took on lastarza. frazier had more experience when he took on bonavena.

frazier also was burnt out after the ali superfight. at just 29 years old he was past his prime. fraziers weight balooned to 215lb and he became slower and more vunerable.

theres a good chance frazier (going under the same circumstances marciano went through entering his fights) would lose to one of rocky's early opponents or lose to lastarza. if frazier somehow survives, theres a good chance he will burn out before he gets to 49-0 and his weight will baloon 10lb and he could lose to a walcott or charles.

Liston losing to Marshall was only his 8th fight and Marshall was more experienced than Liston at the time. Liston suffered an injury (broken jaw)early in the fight which no doubt affected his performance. Liston later avenged this loss. So the question then becomes, What early Marciano opponent would have beaten Liston ?

I believe sonny had more amatuer experience and had a trainer in his first 10 fights.

rocky very early his career took on a much much more experienced top notch journeyman tiger ted lowry who was just as good as marshall.

lowry's style was almost reminsisant to marty marshalls. both were clowns. so what happen to liston against marshall would happen vs lowry automatically since liston lost to marshall. different fight scenario but you get the picture.

would liston be able to get by bobby quinn or eddie ross? rocky in his 4th fight took on 15-1 bobby quinn(record incomplete). quinn was considered the huge favorite and used rocky as a stepping stone. rocky had no experience vs a fighter of quinns caliber and had to train for this fight on his own. rocky in his 5th fight took on 26-0(23) eddie ross.(Ross record isnt complete on boxrec). promoter Sam Silverman threw rocky in there vs a 26-0 fighter because he was angry rocky had upset quinn, so he threw rocky in vs big prospect eddie ross to add a W to eddie's record. liston in his 4th fight won by a split decision over a 5-1 fighter. might liston get upset by quinn or ross??


after that, i dont see liston losing since he was able to adapt quickly without needing big time amatuer experience.

Buster Douglas overall reach, size and strength was a major factor which contributed to Tyson losing and it was the only fight Tyson lost until Holyfield. So the question then becomes, What later Marciano opponent would have beaten Tyson?

tyson was not the same when rooney left him. tyson was no longer the unpredicatable, deadly offensive and defensive machine he was of 86-1988. tyson was out of shape, and mentally unstable when he took on douglas and he didnt have his same defense, didnt attack the body anymore. he was suffering mentally and physically. to a master boxer like charles or walcott, they could easily upset tyson.


tyson had loads of amatuer experience and was being INCREDIBLE WELL TRAINED FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS. marciano had virtually no amatuer experience and wasnt even being trained by charley goldman until after his pro career started.

i defintley see tyson losing to one of marciano's early opponents, if he goes through the same circumstances marciano went through entering the fights.

in tysons 20th fight, he nearly lost to james tillis.

marciano 20th fight, he had a very close one with tiger ted lowry. and tyson at that stage of his career was much more experienced and had a lot more training when he went up against tillis.

One reason Marciano was such an underdog in his early fights was because of how bad he looked. Sam Silverman co-promoter for Marciano's early fights described Marciano as "this kid's got nothing. He can punch alright but I've never seen a fighter as clumsy. The kid doesn't know what he's doing out there."

EXACTLEY! rocky had virtually no amatuer experience and no training at all from goldmanm, yet somehow he managed to escape the early part of his career without a loss even though he was being used as a to pad other guys records.

had it not been for rockys right hand, he would have never made it out of there. I can only imagine how bad marciano looked then. from what i hear, he had no defense and he would just go in and throw 1000 punches missing 900 and then almost tearing the other guys head off with the 100 that landed. he would take huge punches in his earlier fights, and would go all out aggresive and wild never worrying about counterpunches or getting tired. and he would land his suzy Q and then just like that the fight is over. one thing im really impressed about rocky's early fights, is him not even being knocked down once. he had no defense then, he took flush punches every fight until goldman started to polish him up.






even sam silverman is amazed years later how rocky went undefeated his whole career
"what people dont realize is rocky could have lost anyone of his early fights."





fact is you can say certain greats would go 49-0 against marcianos competition, but thats you saying theu would beat marcianos opponents all on there best night. hell i could say with anyons competition.

[smasher]

This is undoubtedly the dumbest argument I have ever heard.

Let me get this right. Marciano had no amateur record and was a poor fighter early in his career. Got it.

Now what does that have to do with the fact that the afformentioned former champions would beat Marciano's competition? If anything it shows that Marciano's competition was weak based on the fact that an unschooled amateur with little formal training could beat them.

What if Frazier, Liston and Tyson didn't fight amateur? I don't know and I don't care. They did and they would have torn through Marciano's competition including Roland Lastarza and Ted Lowry, give me a break.

Marciano fought Lastarza in his 26th fight. Frazier fought Foster in his 26th fight. In Frazier's next fight he beat Muhammad Ali. Are you suggesting this Frazier loses to Lastarza? If you are, you need to get the **** off this forum and return to where you came from.

If Frazier had fought Marciano's opponents, HE WOULDN'T BE BURNED OUT BECAUSE HE WOULD NOT HAVE WENT THROUGH 15 ROUNDS OF HELL WITH ALI.

Even the 31 year old Frazier of Thrilla in Manilla doesn't lose to the 185 lb 33 year old Charles or the 38 year old Walcott, we both know that. Christ, Charles lost 15 of 25 fights starting with the Marciano fights, he was not the same fighter he was.


Stop building up Marciano's early opponents. Ross was a light-heavyweight and his so-called record of 26-0 comes from the mouth of promoter Silverman. I've never seen his 26 so-called fights documented anywhere. Ross amounted to nothing in his career.

Quinn also amounted to nothing in his career. Comparing these two fighters to Bonevena and Marshall is outlandish and biased.

Frazier beat Bonevena in his 12th fight. Bonevena was an experienced world ranked fighter at the time who had beaten Chuvalo as well as been in with Zora Folley among others. No need to list what Bonevena did after the Frazier fight. Who did Marciano fight in his 12th fight? Gilley Ferron. 1-2 with both losses by KO. An incomplete boxrec record you say? Show me otherwise, if not shut up, that's his record. Either way Frazier isn't losing to Gilley Ferron.

As for the Tyson argument, I'm sorry but a 38 year old Walcott or 33 year old 185 lb Charles isn't beating a 24 year old Tyson, even the one that fought Douglas.

Marciano beat Moore just after turning 32 years of age then got the hell out of Dodge. If he had fought on to the age that the other fighters I mentioned did, Marciano sure as hell wouldn't have retired undefeated.

[RockyMarcianofan00]

Marciano v Lastarza one would have been a ko in rocky's favor but the fight before he fought carmine vingo, he knocked vingo into a coma, so he didn't train for that fight, he was in the hospital or the chapel, 2 weeks in the gym

he was also was holding back severely because he didn't want to hurt another person by the next fight he was fine and in the rematch you can see what happened in the first picture of my signature

[Heckler]

How do you know that? You have supernatural powers? Its ****** to act like someone who predicts things that never happened. Some of you are taking this boxing fantasy way too far.

Rocky Marciano
Only champion without flaws.
Only Champion to retire undefeated.
Highest KO% ever.

Just want to point out how great he was before you guys start insulting him again.

Only champion without flaws? WHAT THE ****? His defence was far from perfect, he had no boxing ability at all... again WHAT THE ****. Highest KO ratio against crap competition, undefeated against crap competition. Statistics are all fine and good but you must identify the circumstances in which they occured.

He was a great, a top 10, if not a top 5 but he is far from flawless and the UNDEFEATED thing is blown out of proportion.

[Heckler]

would frazier be able to get through marcianos first 10 fights under the same circumstances marciano went through, and escape without a loss?

marciano had virtually no amatuer experience, and wasnt even being trained by goldman then. he was thrown into big prospects like 26-0 eddie ross and 15-1 bobby quinn using marciano to pad there record. would frazier be able to escape there without a loss going through the same circumstances marciano went through entering the fights? marciano had barely any amatuer experience and he was without goldman


frazier nearly lost to oscar bonavena in 66. yet frazier had tons of amatuer experience. what makes you think going under the same circumstances marciano was going through entering his fights, he would be able to get past roland lastarza in 1950? marciano was very inexerpeicned against world class fighters when he took on lastarza. frazier had more experience when he took on bonavena.

frazier also was burnt out after the ali superfight. at just 29 years old he was past his prime. fraziers weight balooned to 215lb and he became slower and more vunerable.

theres a good chance frazier (going under the same circumstances marciano went through entering his fights) would lose to one of rocky's early opponents or lose to lastarza. if frazier somehow survives, theres a good chance he will burn out before he gets to 49-0 and his weight will baloon 10lb and he could lose to a walcott or charles.







I believe sonny had more amatuer experience and had a trainer in his first 10 fights.

rocky very early his career took on a much much more experienced top notch journeyman tiger ted lowry who was just as good as marshall.

lowry's style was almost reminsisant to marty marshalls. both were clowns. so what happen to liston against marshall would happen vs lowry automatically since liston lost to marshall. different fight scenario but you get the picture.

would liston be able to get by bobby quinn or eddie ross? rocky in his 4th fight took on 15-1 bobby quinn(record incomplete). quinn was considered the huge favorite and used rocky as a stepping stone. rocky had no experience vs a fighter of quinns caliber and had to train for this fight on his own. rocky in his 5th fight took on 26-0(23) eddie ross.(Ross record isnt complete on boxrec). promoter Sam Silverman threw rocky in there vs a 26-0 fighter because he was angry rocky had upset quinn, so he threw rocky in vs big prospect eddie ross to add a W to eddie's record. liston in his 4th fight won by a split decision over a 5-1 fighter. might liston get upset by quinn or ross??


after that, i dont see liston losing since he was able to adapt quickly without needing big time amatuer experience.





tyson was not the same when rooney left him. tyson was no longer the unpredicatable, deadly offensive and defensive machine he was of 86-1988. tyson was out of shape, and mentally unstable when he took on douglas and he didnt have his same defense, didnt attack the body anymore. he was suffering mentally and physically. to a master boxer like charles or walcott, they could easily upset tyson.


tyson had loads of amatuer experience and was being INCREDIBLE WELL TRAINED FOR THE PAST 5 YEARS. marciano had virtually no amatuer experience and wasnt even being trained by charley goldman until after his pro career started.

i defintley see tyson losing to one of marciano's early opponents, if he goes through the same circumstances marciano went through entering the fights.

in tysons 20th fight, he nearly lost to james tillis.

marciano 20th fight, he had a very close one with tiger ted lowry. and tyson at that stage of his career was much more experienced and had a lot more training when he went up against tillis.











EXACTLEY! rocky had virtually no amatuer experience and no training at all from goldmanm, yet somehow he managed to escape the early part of his career without a loss even though he was being used as a to pad other guys records.

had it not been for rockys right hand, he would have never made it out of there. I can only imagine how bad marciano looked then. from what i hear, he had no defense and he would just go in and throw 1000 punches missing 900 and then almost tearing the other guys head off with the 100 that landed. he would take huge punches in his earlier fights, and would go all out aggresive and wild never worrying about counterpunches or getting tired. and he would land his suzy Q and then just like that the fight is over. one thing im really impressed about rocky's early fights, is him not even being knocked down once. he had no defense then, he took flush punches every fight until goldman started to polish him up.






even sam silverman is amazed years later how rocky went undefeated his whole career
"what people dont realize is rocky could have lost anyone of his early fights."





fact is you can say certain greats would go 49-0 against marcianos competition, but thats you saying theu would beat marcianos opponents all on there best night. hell i could say with anyons competition.

Who gives a **** about how inexperienced rocky was ETC. We are comparing Ability. Take someone of Joe Fraziers (and others) prime ability, compare it to Rocky's prime ability and then think about how they would perform with this ability in rockys era. Simple, dont try to gloss over the fact that Rocky's competition was crap.