Kostya Tszyu-where does he rank?

[young_robbed]

You questioned whether Arguello was prime. What does it matter, since prime or not he was still better than the Chavez that Tszyu fought?

If we are comparing resumes then Arguello helps Pryor. He doesn't hurt him.

And ALOT better. Arguello was on a winning streak and just looked great against Rooney prior to that.

[Scott9945]

There are good points on both sides here. But I think Vince Phillips is getting sold short here. He was a very good junior welter (he had no business fighting Quartey) who would have been excellent if he wasn't plagued by drug problems. Don't just write him off like he was another journeyman.

[Humean]

No win on Tszyu's resume comes close to Pryor's win over Arguello. That's the whole point here. Tszyu was one of the best light welters ever, but he is not better than Pryor. Pryor would have never lost to Phillips which obviously affects Tszyu's legacy negatively.

But my point is that you can reasonably doubt whether the two Arguello wins are as great as you are making out. Maybe Pryor wouldn't have ever lost to Phillips but he lost to Bobby Joe Young, or does that not count?

in no order

Meldrick Taylor
Tony Canzoneri
De La Hoya
Locche
Cervantes
Coggi
Benitez
Ross
Pryor
Jackie Kid Berg
Chavez
Duilio Loi

there you go

Well I do not think all of those have as strong a case as Tszyu. Of course this can depend upon the criteria you use and your outlook but I don't see how you can think that Taylor, De La Hoya or Coggi have as strong a case as Tszyu. Taylor had only a handful (at most) of meaningful fights at 140 and De La Hoya had 3. Coggi's career has some similarities to Tszyu's but it was surely not as good as Tszyu's.

Some of the others I don't agree with but I can see a case for from a different perspective than mine.

For me only Cervantes and Chavez are unequivocally ahead of Tszyu.

You questioned whether Arguello was prime. What does it matter, since prime or not he was still better than the Chavez that Tszyu fought?

If we are comparing resumes then Arguello helps Pryor. He doesn't hurt him.

I wasn't suggesting that 2000 Chavez was anywhere near as good as 1982-83 Arguello nor was I suggesting that Arguello wasn't 'prime'. I was saying someone could reasonably question that about Arguello and devalue those Pryor wins in the same way people are diminishing some of Tszyu's wins, particularly the Gonzalez win.

[AppleJack]

There are good points on both sides here. But I think Vince Phillips is getting sold short here. He was a very good junior welter (he had no business fighting Quartey) who would have been excellent if he wasn't plagued by drug problems. Don't just write him off like he was another journeyman.

I remember Phillips having a lot of hype and promise in his career at that stage, and before his drug problems got hold, and he was thought of as a future P4P level fighter at that stage.

Unless people were watching boxing and following it during that time, they'd never think of Phillips that way, yet he had great skills and was one hell of a fighter at one point.

Sad what happened to him. The Tszyu fight was his big defining win, but he let it all go after that and fell back down when he could have really put it all together and done something very good. So much talent goes to waste in boxing. The inconsistency it creates can make a fighter a P4Per one night then basically a gatekeeper the next. Terrible.

[young_robbed]

But my point is that you can reasonably doubt whether the two Arguello wins are as great as you are making out. Maybe Pryor wouldn't have ever lost to Phillips but he lost to Bobby Joe Young, or does that not count?

Seriously? I made a point of not bringing up the Hatton loss and now you have to bring up Bobby Joe Young. Was Pryor prime against Bobby Joe young? Was the fight even at junior welterweight which is what we are talking about? Was Tszyu prime against Phillips? Yes he was. And he got beat down decisively. Big difference there.

I wasn't suggesting that 2000 Chavez was anywhere near as good as 1982-83 Arguello nor was I suggesting that Arguello wasn't 'prime'. I was saying someone could reasonably question that about Arguello and devalue those Pryor wins in the same way people are diminishing some of Tszyu's wins, particularly the Gonzalez win.

Does Tszyu have any wins that are anywhere near as good as the Arguello win? The answer is no. Not Chavez, Not Roger mayweather, not Gonzalez, not Judah, etc. Tszyu has more depth to his resume, I'll give you that, but I think Pryor would've ripped him apart prime for prime.

[Humean]

Seriously? I made a point of not bringing up the Hatton loss and now you have to bring up Bobby Joe Young. Was Pryor prime against Bobby Joe young? Was the fight even at junior welterweight which is what we are talking about? Was Tszyu prime against Phillips? Yes he was. And he got beat down decisively. Big difference there.



Does Tszyu have any wins that are anywhere near as good as the Arguello win? The answer is no. Not Chavez, Not Roger mayweather, not Gonzalez, not Judah, etc. Tszyu has more depth to his resume, I'll give you that, but I think Pryor would've ripped him apart prime for prime.

You are completely missing the point.

[Cardinal Buck]

I think Arthur Abraham is putting himself on the same tier.

[brian___]

Kostya Tszyu definitely made the top 6 or 7.

[BennyST]

I think Arthur Abraham is putting himself on the same tier.

AA has been a top P4P fighter for a decade, was lineal, undisputed champion and reigned as one of the only true champions in boxing? Could have fooled me.

[wladavit]

thank you people for all the answers