Muhammad Ali was not a great fighter

[The Surgeon]

Simply put i think that Ali is rated exactly as he should be. Quite clearly he took boxing to another level, and transcended the greatest sport in the world.

True, he did but im saying purely on his fighting he aint quite number 1 in my eyes.

[butterfly1964]

What's so impressive about Ali's stoppage of Quarry in their rematch (especially considering it was against a fighter who just watched his brother get brutally KO'd earlier in the evening)?

Speaking of that excuse...

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=95108

(Go to number 2 of "The Best of the Rest")

Quarry was obviously exhausted to begin the 7th round, Ali threw a flurry of arm punches and one solid left hook, Quarry stumbled once, the referee stoppped it, and Quarry seemed perfectly fine and threw up his arms in disgust just a moment later...

Not much impressive there.

Actually, I noticed in pretty much all of Quarry's fights when he was stopped he protested to the referee, including both Frazier fights, the Norton fight, and the Chuvalo fight. Quarry just didn't want to give up, even when he was in no condition to continue. That's something Quarry always does when he gets stopped, IMO.

[butterfly1964]

Holmes in my opinion beats Ali in their primes

What are you smoking? Ali would hit him with so many right hands, Holmes wouldn't be able to take it for 15 rounds. Holmes has what it takes to beat Ali, but he has inferior speed, ring generalship, and all he had was a jab. his hook wasn't in the class of Frazier, Dempsey or Liston, so the only chance would be the jab, and maybe the uppercut. Ali's best punch is the right, which holmes is a downright sucker for, so I can see Ali winning the fight with the right hand alone, right after setting it up with the jab.

[Yogi]

Actually, I noticed in pretty much all of Quarry's fights when he was stopped he protested to the referee, including both Frazier fights, the Norton fight, and the Chuvalo fight. Quarry just didn't want to give up, even when he was in no condition to continue. That's something Quarry always does when he gets stopped, IMO.

I'd have to watch some of those again to be sure (I haven't watched some of them recently enough...do remember the Chuvalo fight clearly enough though, and I understand Quarry's compliant in that one), but Quarry did no such complaining when Frazier stopped him in the rematch...Louis stepped between them to stop it, and Quarry did absolutely nothing but put his head down and walk straight back to his corner.

[The Surgeon]

What are you smoking? Ali would hit him with so many right hands, Holmes wouldn't be able to take it for 15 rounds. Holmes has what it takes to beat Ali, but he has inferior speed, ring generalship, and all he had was a jab. his hook wasn't in the class of Frazier, Dempsey or Liston, so the only chance would be the jab, and maybe the uppercut. Ali's best punch is the right, which holmes is a downright sucker for, so I can see Ali winning the fight with the right hand alone, right after setting it up with the jab.

And Ali's hook was!?? so u say holmes has an uppercut and a jab to Ali's jab and right, thats two punches each at my count mate! Wut punch did Larry ko Marvis Frazier with again? Listen im not an Ali h8er i just think Holmes has the beating of him

[hemichromis]

What are you smoking? Ali would hit him with so many right hands, Holmes wouldn't be able to take it for 15 rounds. Holmes has what it takes to beat Ali, but he has inferior speed, ring generalship, and all he had was a jab. his hook wasn't in the class of Frazier, Dempsey or Liston, so the only chance would be the jab, and maybe the uppercut. Ali's best punch is the right, which holmes is a downright sucker for, so I can see Ali winning the fight with the right hand alone, right after setting it up with the jab.

true holmes is a damn good boxer but a prime ali/clay was
faster, had a better chin and i would even say he hit harder. however ali hated fighters like holmes so it would be a good fight.

oh you say holmes' hook is not in the class of frasier i think i've only seen holmes land about 10 left hooks in his career and non were stunning


i think holmes had the harder jab and his right followed it more quickly. but alis was harder

[The Surgeon]

true holmes is a damn good boxer but a prime ali/clay was
faster, had a better chin and i would even say he hit harder. however ali hated fighters like holmes so it would be a good fight.

oh you say holmes' hook is not in the class of frasier i think i've only seen holmes land about 10 left hooks in his career and non were stunning


i think holmes had the harder jab and his right followed it more quickly. but alis was harder

For me Holmes had the better chin, nothing wrong with Ali's just think Holmes' was better and he hit just as hard if not harder

[butterfly1964]

For me Holmes had the better chin, nothing wrong with Ali's just think Holmes' was better and he hit just as hard if not harder

How does Holmes have a better chin if a punch drunk Ali took Shavers best punches without going down, and a prime Holmes couldn't? Plus Shavers hit Ali a lot more than he hit Holmes.

[The Noose]

What's so impressive about Ali's stoppage of Quarry in their rematch (especially considering it was against a fighter who just watched his brother get brutally KO'd earlier in the evening)?

Quarry was obviously exhausted to begin the 7th round, Ali threw a flurry of arm punches and one solid left hook, Quarry stumbled once, the referee stoppped it, and Quarry seemed perfectly fine and threw up his arms in disgust just a moment later...

Not much impressive there.

U think arm punches are going to stop Quarry?
He went the distance wit Patterson twice, also Ron Lyle, plus it took Frazier 7 rnds to stop him.
Ali stopped him in 7, that to me shows he had power.
Yes, it was an accumilation of accurate shots, but u dont stop Quarry if u aint got no power.

Or Frazier and Bonevena (who hadnt ben stopped before).

[Franko]

True, he did but im saying purely on his fighting he aint quite number 1 in my eyes.

Who is number one in your eyes? Fair comment, but i'd like to know who you regard number 1.
Ali is certainly more than capable of beating any heavyweight in history, theroetically of course, and i've seen it mentioned on this thread that Holmes had a better chin than Ali!!! Sorry but that is absolute BS. When did Ali ever get knocked spark out? prime or no prime! Seemingly out on his feet against Cooper, yes, but he got up, and despite the extra time, he recovered. and won! Frazier knocked him over with a shot great enough to have put the majority of other heavyweights to sleep, but Ali got up, and that punch was possibly the deciding factor in his first fight with Frazier. Ernie Shavers and George Foreman were two of the hardest punchers in heavyweight history and couldn't knock Ali out when IMO he was past his best. Larry Holmes couldn't knock the ageing shadow of Muhammad Ali out, but i get the feeling that maybe he didn't want to do that. Theoretically, in his prime would Mike Tyson have knocked out a past his prime Ali? I'm not sure, but he knocked out Larry Holmes.