Where do you rank Ray Leonard?

[Ray Corso]

Are people aware that Leonard had 40 bouts? Total???

He fought good to decent guys coming up and improved after a few shaky rounds in a few.

He steps way up to a great lightweight moving up and gets beat!

Then for the rest of his career he fights Duran again at 47 then a super middleweight garbage fight. Hearns 3 times, the last one should of been a loss and a dud . Then he waits 4 1/2 years to call out an out of prime Hagler. Gets humiliated by Norris and blown out by Camacho!!!

This is NOT a great career he was a terrific boxer but look at the record and it doesn't match up with greats!!

Leonard was a huge part of the "new boxing scene" that was begun by Ali & Frazier & Big George. Win a gold medal, fight to build a record to 25-0 and then take your shots at a title. At least then there was two major federations instead of 17 like today!

Sorry to the fans of Leonard but to me he is a top fifteen welter who would struggle with 15 rounds and in with the real experienced men that could box and punch just like him.

To say he's a top 5 all time in all the weight classes is pretty amazing to me.

Ray.

[IronDanHamza]

Are people aware that Leonard had 40 bouts? Total???

He fought good to decent guys coming up and improved after a few shaky rounds in a few.

He steps way up to a great lightweight moving up and gets beat!

Then for the rest of his career he fights Duran again at 47 then a super middleweight garbage fight. Hearns 3 times, the last one should of been a loss and a dud . Then he waits 4 1/2 years to call out an out of prime Hagler. Gets humiliated by Norris and blown out by Camacho!!!

This is NOT a great career he was a terrific boxer but look at the record and it doesn't match up with greats!!

Leonard was a huge part of the "new boxing scene" that was begun by Ali & Frazier & Big George. Win a gold medal, fight to build a record to 25-0 and then take your shots at a title. At least then there was two major federations instead of 17 like today!

Sorry to the fans of Leonard but to me he is a top fifteen welter who would struggle with 15 rounds and in with the real experienced men that could box and punch just like him.

To say he's a top 5 all time in all the weight classes is pretty amazing to me.

Ray.

Well, he beat Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler, 3 of which were 15 round bouts against All Time Great opposition.

Clearly has a great and very impressive record and is also clearly one of the greatest Welterweights of all time.

So you're not making much sense really.

[BKM-2010]

Are people aware that Leonard had 40 bouts? Total???

He fought good to decent guys coming up and improved after a few shaky rounds in a few.

He steps way up to a great lightweight moving up and gets beat!

Then for the rest of his career he fights Duran again at 47 then a super middleweight garbage fight. Hearns 3 times, the last one should of been a loss and a dud . Then he waits 4 1/2 years to call out an out of prime Hagler. Gets humiliated by Norris and blown out by Camacho!!!

This is NOT a great career he was a terrific boxer but look at the record and it doesn't match up with greats!!

Leonard was a huge part of the "new boxing scene" that was begun by Ali & Frazier & Big George. Win a gold medal, fight to build a record to 25-0 and then take your shots at a title. At least then there was two major federations instead of 17 like today!

Sorry to the fans of Leonard but to me he is a top fifteen welter who would struggle with 15 rounds and in with the real experienced men that could box and punch just like him.

To say he's a top 5 all time in all the weight classes is pretty amazing to me.

Ray.

You clearly can't seperate your emotions from objective rankings.

[StarshipTrooper]

Top-3 Welter, no worse than top-5.

[Japanese Boxing]

Eh, I think Ray is putting into the perspective of how things played out more so than a wins and losses column. I'm fine with his opinion, I don't agree with it but it's his view.

[Ray Corso]

It's just my opinion I'm NOT selling it!
I knew Ray when he was 12 yrs old. I knew him through his amateur career and worked against him a couple of times as he was groomed coming up. He also trained at my gym for his 8th or 9th fight and I watched him fight at least 10 times as an amateur and 5 or 6 times as a pro.

I have no emotional attachment to any fighter and when a trainer gets that way it's time to find another trainer for the fighter.

All of you are welcomed to your choices regardless what its based on, mine is based on over 50 years and actually witnessing the fighter from his inception to his finish! I trained with Pat Nappi who was the head USA trainer when Leonard fought on the USA team.

Wilfred was a great talent who often trained horribly if at all. He never lived up to his total abilities. You folks don't know that but I do. He won a split decs. over a Cervantes who was well passed his prime. He lost 8 fights and was stopped 4 times! If you look at his early 22 fights they were against debut guys or really bad fill ins.
...3!!!! were fifteen round bouts WOW a whole 3 seriously?

Hagler was "picked" everyone knew it, not fans but we knew Hagler had to stop Ray to win and he wasn't in prime form anymore to chase Ray all over the place.

No I'm not making much sense to you, your a fan and I was a professional manager, trainer, and fighter! So of course you have the experience in judgment and evaluations.

I didn't say he wasn't a great welterweight! I have him in my top fifteen!
To me the 15 best all time is very impressive, and the men from 6 to 15 are capable of beating each other with the top 4 or 5 having a better winning percentage above all.
I'm not degrading anyone I simply don't put him in the higher percentile.
He lacks experience compared to all the others. He also will loose focus and forget to sit down on his punches.
With only 40 bouts he only has about 7 career changing encounters.
Hell Robinson had 5 fights with one guy that were equal and surpassing anyone Leonard fought!

I don't have favorites, I'm not a fan of boxers. I'm a fan of boxing and do appreciate high rate volume fighters who know how to box and know when to fight. I appreciate the long careers the greats live and their activeness too.

It's ok to disagree but if you stop having your feelings (hero's) hurt and listen and research you may have a different out look. Or not!
Ray. good nite.

[GOD-FR33]

I disagree..........

I think Ray is the G.O.A.T. Name three fighters you ever seen in your life better than SRL. I am not talking about fighters who didn't live up to their abilities. I am talking about skill-wise. And if they were "more-skilled", could they out will Ray over 12-15 rounds? Who could out condition him? If Duran and Hagler couldn't out-skill, out will him, please tell me who could? He beat arguably the greatest lightweight/middleweight ever.

[BKM-2010]

It's just my opinion I'm NOT selling it!
I knew Ray when he was 12 yrs old. I knew him through his amateur career and worked against him a couple of times as he was groomed coming up. He also trained at my gym for his 8th or 9th fight and I watched him fight at least 10 times as an amateur and 5 or 6 times as a pro.

I have no emotional attachment to any fighter and when a trainer gets that way it's time to find another trainer for the fighter.

All of you are welcomed to your choices regardless what its based on, mine is based on over 50 years and actually witnessing the fighter from his inception to his finish! I trained with Pat Nappi who was the head USA trainer when Leonard fought on the USA team.

Wilfred was a great talent who often trained horribly if at all. He never lived up to his total abilities. You folks don't know that but I do. He won a split decs. over a Cervantes who was well passed his prime. He lost 8 fights and was stopped 4 times! If you look at his early 22 fights they were against debut guys or really bad fill ins.
...3!!!! were fifteen round bouts WOW a whole 3 seriously?

Hagler was "picked" everyone knew it, not fans but we knew Hagler had to stop Ray to win and he wasn't in prime form anymore to chase Ray all over the place.

No I'm not making much sense to you, your a fan and I was a professional manager, trainer, and fighter! So of course you have the experience in judgment and evaluations.

I didn't say he wasn't a great welterweight! I have him in my top fifteen!
To me the 15 best all time is very impressive, and the men from 6 to 15 are capable of beating each other with the top 4 or 5 having a better winning percentage above all.
I'm not degrading anyone I simply don't put him in the higher percentile.
He lacks experience compared to all the others. He also will loose focus and forget to sit down on his punches.
With only 40 bouts he only has about 7 career changing encounters.
Hell Robinson had 5 fights with one guy that were equal and surpassing anyone Leonard fought!

I don't have favorites, I'm not a fan of boxers. I'm a fan of boxing and do appreciate high rate volume fighters who know how to box and know when to fight. I appreciate the long careers the greats live and their activeness too.

It's ok to disagree but if you stop having your feelings (hero's) hurt and listen and research you may have a different out look. Or not!
Ray. good nite.

No worries, I only value your stories about fighters that actually happened which is pretty valuable to the forum. I don't take the senile opinions seriously though, not even sure why I responded to it this time.

[StarshipTrooper]

I think Ray is the G.O.A.T. Name three fighters you ever seen in your life better than SRL. I am not talking about fighters who didn't live up to their abilities. I am talking about skill-wise. And if they were "more-skilled", could they out will Ray over 12-15 rounds? Who could out condition him? If Duran and Hagler couldn't out-skill, out will him, please tell me who could? He beat arguably the greatest lightweight/middleweight ever.

Sugar

Ray

Robinson






Remember him?

[GOD-FR33]

See.........

See. This is where crossing eras can be complicated. Robinson was great and one of the greats BUT his ring IQ and athleticism couldn't match Ray's. Ray is as smart as they come and he would KO Robinson. Robinson had poor technique and he got hit too much. Ray's hand speed, quick feet, quick reflexes, and ability to outthink his opponents, gives him the advantage. Robinson held his hands low in that old school form of fighting and he would get knocked out. SRL was better than Robinson. I don't care how many fights he had. I am tired of the so called experts automatically saying Robinson is the greatest. Based on what? What did he do better than Ray Leonard? Don't worry, I'll wait.