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hey hey hey, guys, should we all start a 21st century thread? saa likes the idea.
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Last edited by jas; 05-25-2014, 05:55 PM. -
Not a top 50 though, too few legit guys.Comment
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I tried to do a top 25 from 2000 and damn, even THAT isn't worth it. More than half would barely sniff a top 200Comment
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Here are your cases, Adam, but honestly, is it really necessary for Chang?
Anyway, ability-wise, Chang’s innate skills were second to none. At his best, he was an excellent punch-slipper, and reminds of an early version of Roberto Duran with his ability to seamlessly blend offense and defense together. Superb defensive radar for a swarmer, and could switch between swarming and a more boxing-oriented approach, albeit in an unorthodox manner. Overall, he was a multi-faceted stylist with excellent physical tools.
I can understand if people are thinking “his career and prime was too short” or something similar and holding it against him, but truth is he achieved incredibly much within a pretty short time span, and all this during the 108lbs. division’s Golden Age.
Even if the Zapata win (wins in my opinion) was prior to 84, he still beat good/very good fighters in Sot Chitalada, Katsuo Tokashiki, and monster-puncher German Torres.
Sot may only have had four fights prior to their first meeting, but he had a load of pro-experience from Muay Thai and was only six months away from moving up and winning the lineal flyweight crown against Bernal.
He absolutely destroyed Tokashiki, a good, solid fighter and the best Japan had to offer, in an marvelous performance, and won twice over Torres, although he probably should have lost the second fight (the first when counting from 1984 and forward).
The rest of his title defenses weren't against worse opposition than what Carbajal and Gonzalez routinely met - and when you compare and summarize the amount of good/very good fighters they beat, Chang comes out on top.
By the time he first fought Hideyuki Ohashi (yes, the same Ohashi as Lopez beat) he had started to fade quite badly, but still managed to cling onto the title for a few more defenses before retiring at age 25 in a quite similar meteoric rise and early burnout type of career as Wilfred Benitez. Being a teenage phenomenon and having a less than Spartan lifestyle tends to lead to a brief prime, and Chang was no exception.
When he returned one year later because of financial problems, he was clearly past his prime, but still gave good efforts against Chiquita, a faded Sot (Chang should have won and been crowned flyweight champion in my opinion), and a much improved Muangchai Kittikasem compared to the light flyweight version that Carbajal beat.
All in all, Chang should be a surefire lock for this list in my opinion. Even with a rather brief career and prime, he still managed to rack up 13 title-defenses during this time period, looked absolutely mind-blowing while doing it, and when mixing in ability, dominance and level of opposition beaten - he ranks incredibly high.
Moving on to Sung-Kil Moon, I guess the major drawback that could potentially exclude him from the list is that his career was all too short, with two losses that potentially ruining all possible arguments.
But let's not forget that he did beat two very good fighters in Nana Yaw Konadu and the underrated twin of the Galaxy’s, had a respectable title-reign against mostly solid competition, and can claim to not been at his best on both occasions when he lost.
In his rematch with Khaokor - Moon’s long-time trainer had passed away on the evening before the fight, which probably means his preparations and mental focus wasn’t the best going into the bout - and it’s a testament to the Korean’s durability that he stood up to the horrendous beating Khaokor handed him.
We neither should put all too much stock into his loss against Jose Luis Bueno, which also was the last fight of his career. Even if Moon only had twenty-one professional fights prior, he was past his best and rumored to already to have showed signs of brain-damage, so a case can certainly be made to question the validity of the loss.
Regarding his in-ring application, he will never be remembered as a masterful ring-mechanic that relied on subtle technique to get things done.
He was an unorthodox, physical beast who overcame his complete lack of textbook skills with sheer physical brutality and accurate, clubbing bombs - and somehow made it effective with his mix of humongous punching-power, top-end durability, granite chin and a cavalcade of headbutts, even if his style was about as pleasant to watch as getting knifes rammed into your eyes.
So basically you’re left with a 115-118lbs. wrecking-ball who stringed together some very fine wins and a respectable amount of title defenses during a brief career.
When you take into consideration that it’s possible that we never even got to see the best version of Moon, it's kind of scary to think about how much better he could've done if he hadn’t wasted his prime physical years as an amateur.
Over to my final suggestion/case...
Sahaprom seems largely forgotten by most people, a very classy and tidy fighter in general in the same mold as fellow Thai’s Sasakul, Chuwatana and Wonjongkam.
He got fast-tracked after a long and successful Muay Thai career, having somewhere around 180 bouts if I recall correctly, and won a few championships. To be honest, it’s a remarkable feat that Saha’ lasted as long as he did with all the wear and tear he must have gained from MT.
He isn’t awfully impressive if you seek a consistent resume filled with good names beaten, but had a long-reign as a titlist with some good wins, especially over previously mentioned Chuwatana, but also twice over Nishioka, and showcased a very good skill-set. His wins against Tatsuyoshi could probably be included in the same bracket as the two above, but keep in mind that the Jap’ had severe eye problems and was past his prime when they met.
The losses against Hasegawa don’t exactly strengthen his resume, but he had started to slow down by that point and Hasegawa simply caught him at the right time.
The main thing Sahaprom lacks and suffers from is the same problem as many other long-time titlists from the lower-weights does, i.e. lack of defining fights and good fighters beaten on their record. This is especially usual from the 90’s and forward, but some fighters tend to get a pass for it though, Khaosai Galaxy and Ricardo Lopez being brilliant examples of this, and their resumes is probably a notch below Sahaprom’s.
It’s a shame that unification fights with the other splinter-titlists, Rafael Marquez and Tim Austin, never happened. Just imagine what a boost his resume would’ve gotten if he had beaten both of them, and it would have cemented his status as the best bantamweight of the era without a doubt.
I consider him as the best bantamweight of that era anyways though, but not because he clearly separated himself from the others by beating a superior array of opposition or having stellar accomplishments that the others lack, because their level in those regards are essentially the same.
I just happen to think that Sahaprom was the most rounded and skilled out of that bunch, and there hasn't been a better bantamweight since him in my opinion.
To wrap up this mess of a post, the fighters I would swap them with would be:
Castillo-Chang
Quartey-Moon
McClellan-Sahaprom
I hope I’ve made a clear case for each and one of them, because this post has made my head hurt!
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Thanks greeh, and yeah most should know Chang but for the newer fans or those that just look thru the posts to learn, I think it's always good to do alittle breakdown..
Very good post and breakdowns.. You put in a true championship effort on that one..
Will update list soonComment
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