Top 50 fighters last 30 years ie since 1984

[Holywarrior]

Morales did defeat Pacquiao unlike Barrera but he also got bashed up bad in the two other occasions. Barrera got bashed up bad in one and lost very clearly in the other but wasn't quite as brutalized as Morales was in two of his and Barrera's first outing with Pacquiao. Therefore their relative successes/failures against Pacquiao is not as simple as because Morales defeated Pacquiao therefore, in that respect, that that favours Morales.



If you bias your lists by listing 9 opponents for Morales and 8 for Barrera and leave off a noticable win like the Salazar one from Barrera's list and don't acknowledge that he defeated Morales twice and Juarez twice then it is of course going to seem clearer for Morales than it is.

If ever there were two fighters whose careers were very even then it was Barrera and Morales. Trying to separate their careers in terms of greatness is like engaging in the worst excesses of scholasticism. Angels dancing on the heads of pins and all that.

Yeah, hail the great Rocky Juarez

Add Salazar, still not as good as blasting out the guys that whooped Barrera up 4 times.

[jas]

Using mostly fighters from SAA's epic list, here is my top 20 of the 21st century, subject to change:

1. pacquaio
2. hopkins
3. mayweather jr.
4. wladimir
5. juan manuel marquez
6. erik morales
7. marco antonio barrera
8. oscar de la hoya
9. vitali klitschko
10. joe calzaghe
11. felix trinidad
12. andre ward
13. shane mosley
14. winky wright
15. sergio martinez
16. Guillermo Rigondeaux
17. Miguel angel cotto
18. Jose Luis Castillo
19. Timothy bradley
20. Diego Corrales

[Humean]

Yeah, hail the great Rocky Juarez

Add Salazar, still not as good as blasting out the guys that whooped Barrera up 4 times.

I'm not suggesting Juarez was anything great. All this 'resume' talk is a game of name recognition. It always works out the same way, fighter A has more 'names' on his resume than fighter B therefore he is greater or when that doesn't work to produce the pre-determined outcome there is the whole 'he was past his prime' or 'he was shot' therefore that doesn't count and then come up with a more favourable interpretation for the fighter that is liked, or your personal favourite from the Holman Williams thread just disregard all defeats as having never happened to come to the desired conclusion.

Surely anyone who witnessed their careers and all their great fights, against others and between themselves should think there is very little between Morales and Barrera.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Have you decided if Laciar gets included in the list, Adam?

Probably not,, hasn't been that much feedback, but one poster stated that a lot of his best work came pre 1984

He did not arguably beat him all 3 times. Maybe by Barrera's mom yeah.

Morales - Jones, Zaragoza, Chavez, Ayala, Barrera, Espadas, Pacquiao, Mccollough, Chi

Barrera - Hamed, Morales, Tapia, Mckinney, Juarez, Peden, Kelley, Maurin

It's Morales pretty clearly to me.

How can you say morales is better than Barrera when he beat him at least twice h2h in their primes, and their resumes are about equal...

Hamed, morales twice- mab best wins

Barrera, manny- morales best wins

Like I said before, the manny that lost to morales was not a peak manny, it was still the jab, jab, straight left one dimensional manny.. Still a great win for morales but lets not act like it was manny circa 08-11.. Manny greatly improved his ring generalship and right hand after morales..
I remember headed into the first morales fight that manny was working on the right hand and called it Manila ice.. He showed none of it in the first fight, but afterwards realized you can't just blow guys out with jab jab straight left, it may have worked vs Barrera and early vs jmm but eventually you will fight a guy with the chin to take your shots and fire back, and that's exactly what happened vs morales.. Manny became a much better fighter after the morales lost

[jas]

Probably not,, hasn't been that much feedback, but one poster stated that a lot of his best work came pre 1984



How can you say morales is better than Barrera when he beat him at least twice h2h in their primes, and their resumes are about equal...

Hamed, morales twice- mab best wins

Barrera, manny- morales best wins

Like I said before, the manny that lost to morales was not a peak manny, it was still the jab, jab, straight left one dimensional manny.. Still a great win for morales but lets not act like it was manny circa 08-11.. Manny greatly improved his ring generalship and right hand after morales..
I remember headed into the first morales fight that manny was working on the right hand and called it Manila ice.. He showed none of it in the first fight, but afterwards realized you can't just blow guys out with jab jab straight left, it may have worked vs Barrera and early vs jmm but eventually you will fight a guy with the chin to take your shots and fire back, and that's exactly what happened vs morales.. Manny became a much better fighter after the morales lost

Great argument SAA. I'm considering switching MAB and el terible on my list now. Also morales has tested positive twice for PEDs. But I do think morales would have done better against Marquez than MAB did. Some people think the Marquez vs Barrera fight was close. I personally think it was very clearly a Marquez win.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Great argument SAA. I'm considering switching MAB and el terible on my list now. Also morales has tested positive twice for PEDs. But I do think morales would have done better against Marquez than MAB did. Some people think the Marquez vs Barrera fight was close. I personally think it was very clearly a Marquez win.

I'm totally opposite on jmm-mab,,, I felt if the kd had been scored correctly, Barrera should have won... It's one of my favorite fights and taking nothing away from jmm win, I just felt Barrera had done enough to win if everything was scored correctly..
I totally understand people scoring it for jmm, especially with the blown call, it's a no brainer that he won... Would have loved to seen them fight in 02-04 range

[jas]

I'm totally opposite on jmm-mab,,, I felt if the kd had been scored correctly, Barrera should have won... It's one of my favorite fights and taking nothing away from jmm win, I just felt Barrera had done enough to win if everything was scored correctly..
I totally understand people scoring it for jmm, especially with the blown call, it's a no brainer that he won... Would have loved to seen them fight in 02-04 range

Marquez was pressing the action. Barrera was trying to steal rounds with activity late in the rounds. Barrera looked more uncomfortable.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Marquez was pressing the action. Barrera was trying to steal rounds with activity late in the rounds. Barrera looked more uncomfortable.

True,, I thought Barrera was slightly ahead in the first half of the fight, but Marquez def came on stronger late..

[Holywarrior]

Probably not,, hasn't been that much feedback, but one poster stated that a lot of his best work came pre 1984



How can you say morales is better than Barrera when he beat him at least twice h2h in their primes, and their resumes are about equal...

Hamed, morales twice- mab best wins

Barrera, manny- morales best wins

Like I said before, the manny that lost to morales was not a peak manny, it was still the jab, jab, straight left one dimensional manny.. Still a great win for morales but lets not act like it was manny circa 08-11.. Manny greatly improved his ring generalship and right hand after morales..
I remember headed into the first morales fight that manny was working on the right hand and called it Manila ice.. He showed none of it in the first fight, but afterwards realized you can't just blow guys out with jab jab straight left, it may have worked vs Barrera and early vs jmm but eventually you will fight a guy with the chin to take your shots and fire back, and that's exactly what happened vs morales.. Manny became a much better fighter after the morales lost

Many fighters have beaten a guy twice yet that losing fighter has went on to be ranked higher. What a cop out argument

And you fail to leave off Jones who beat Barrera up twice, and stopped him once - for Morales' best wins.

[jas]

Many fighters have beaten a guy twice yet that losing fighter has went on to be ranked higher. What a cop out argument

And you fail to leave off Jones who beat Barrera up twice, and stopped him once - for Morales' best wins.

lol holy, you love stirring up arguments and debates