Is Sam Langford the greatest fighter never to win a world title?

[McGoorty]

Not sure about that

Perhaps the best resume in boxing. Greb's is the only resume I rank above Langford's, and that's a razor-thin call.

It might be time for me to research and do a thread on Greb, I think their resume's about even. I am not like some who just put up a list of guys a guy fought and say "oh there it is, look how great he is". No I do not count their losses against said names, sure Greb beat Tunney.... ONCE then he gets owned by Tunney, so at LHW Tunney is the greater fighter plain and simple and Gene didn't just prove it once..... Then some might say oh but he beat Tommy Loughran,.... sure he did but also lost sometimes to Loughran and then there is the fact that Greb is fighting a Loughran who has had only a few fights, Tommy was a novice the first time they met.... and the second and third times as well and Greb lost some of those. So Langford stacks up very well against Harry and head to head Sam would smash Harry I have little doubt about that, Sam was better.

[The Old LefHook]

Burley was about a dead heat with Holman Williams. How good was Williams is all you need to know?

[Suckmedry]

That is a complete fairytale.

Having high numbers of poor men trying to ape out a living in boxing doesn't increase the relevant competition, it creates a high number of mediocre fighters fighting on dull cards in front of a few hundred spectators.

Do you not think there was a vibrant boxing scene in Britain, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands back then?

The truth is that the sport was very provincial back then and I don't just mean because it was largely dominated by Americans. Boxing then was largely North America plus Western and Central Europe. Look at the high volume of exceptional fighters that have arrived from the rest of the world since around the late 50s onwards.

Did the fighters and young trainers not learn from the old masters, was that knowledge not passed down all the way to today? Where was the knowledge lost? What about alternative ideas developed in other countries, or were the only accurate methods developed in the United States in the 20s, 30s, and 40s? Do the Japanese not know how to box? The steady stream of excellent fighters they have produced since Shirai says they do. And yet how many Japanese boxers are in the International boxing hall of fame? One. Surely you can see that there is an extremely distorted view of the history of the sport that is expressed online and in books and articles in the English language.

Heres the problem- you think its an American defense mechanism to claim techniques and tactics have died out- but see this is an actual fact.

Inside fighting and its nuances are FAR LESS practiced today.

Case in point- look at the way Ward can completely dismantle and dominate a technically proficient european schooled Fighter like Kessler.

Kessler had 0 idea of how to cope with wards sneaky inside game

[joeandthebums]

sure Greb beat Tunney.... ONCE then he gets owned by Tunney

They fought five times with the record 3-1-1 Tunney.

May 1922: Greb decision
Feb 1923: Tunney split, referee Patsy Haley questionable decision
Dec 1923: Tunney decision
Sep 1924: Draw
Mar 1925: Tunney decision

The last contest was the clearest victory of series, but Tunney had left the LHW weight class, at 181-pounds whilst Greb who never became a fully-fleged LHW, weighed 167½-pounds, 13½-pounds lighter for their final meet.

[McGoorty]

They fought five times with the record 3-1-1 Tunney.

May 1922: Greb decision
Feb 1923: Tunney split, referee Patsy Haley questionable decision
Dec 1923: Tunney decision
Sep 1924: Draw
Mar 1925: Tunney decision

The last contest was the clearest victory of series, but Tunney had left the LHW weight class, at 181-pounds whilst Greb who never became a fully-fleged LHW, weighed 167½-pounds, 13½-pounds lighter for their final meet.

Yes, which confirms my belief that Tunney was a better LHW, at least he was too big a mountain for Harry but that's ok cos Harry was a small LHW and still a great fighter, Tunney was a brilliant fighter

[ironalex]

Heres the problem- you think its an American defense mechanism to claim techniques and tactics have died out- but see this is an actual fact.

Inside fighting and its nuances are FAR LESS practiced today.

Case in point- look at the way Ward can completely dismantle and dominate a technically proficient european schooled Fighter like Kessler.

Kessler had 0 idea of how to cope with wards sneaky inside game

Totally agree