Best fighter never to be world champion?

[Ben Bolt]

Ken Norton got awarded the WBC Heavyweight title before his fight with Larry Holmes if I remember right. So he didn't officialy win it in the ring, but he was a world champion.

I respect your view, and I have a lot of respect for Norton and his career.

But I don't see him as a former world champion.
I see him as a former WBC champion.

To me, it makes quite a difference.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

ken norton may have been "champ"

but he is still one of the greatest fighters never to WIN a world title

[Ben Bolt]

In the early 1900’s when boxing was banned in several places, the so-called 'exhibition fights' had no official scoring. It was up to the journalists at ringside to decide the winners, the NWS (newspapers’) decision era.

Sadly, boxing – with its multiple sanction bodies – is back at that stage today. With four or more 'world champs' in most weight classes, it’s up to the boxing journalists and the fans to decide who the true world champ in each weight class really is.

When most other sports have progressed over the last century, reaching the state when ONE independent international federation set the rules, boxing has declined to 'ancient' times.
Our sport is yet again dependent on NWS verdicts (who is world champ?).
Why do we wonder why boxing has dropped its status and popularity?

[Anthony342]

Agreed and I've said that here before Ben Bolt. Although, boxing is still pretty popular in other countries, just more of a fringe sport in the US.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Agreed and I've said that here before Ben Bolt. Although, boxing is still pretty popular in other countries, just more of a fringe sport in the US.

yes, very fringe,,, nba, nfl, mbl, nascar, golf, mma, hockey, soccer are all more popular here in the US..

Yes floyd dominates the sport, and his fights generate alot of buzz,,

But no one knows who broner or garcia or ward are,,,

The thing about boxing in the US is that it has painfully and slowly gone downhill,,

Huge and probably peaked in the 80s with SRL, tyson etc, but you can pinpoint the things that hurt boxing and made it a joke in the US

1. PPV,, once ppv started and fights left regular tv and went to HBO/showtime- the general public awareness slowly dwindled,,

2. chavez-whitaker-- huge fight but showed boxing to be crooked

3. Bowe dodging lewis and throwing belt in the garbage can

4. Tyson and all his troubles turned off alot of people and sponsors

5. All the different belts that got stripped away at heavy in the mid 90s, bowe was the first, then foreman, etc and we had champs like mccall, bruno, seldon, etc... no disrespect to those guys but seems to the general public that boxing is silly

6. Bowe-golata brawl--- just another bizarro boxing event

7. bowe-holy and fan man--- just another bizarro boxing event

8. tyson ear biting--- just another bizarro boxing event

9. by the late 90s guys like roy jones and oscar and shane should have been bigger stars but since they were never showcased on regular network tv, they didnt reach the huge levels like tyson or SRL or ali

10. Alot of big fights never got made ie tyson-holyfied in 89/90, bowe-lewis, bowe-tyson, lewis-tyson in 90s, foreman-tyson in 95, chavez-pernell 2, tito-oscar 2, roy vs anyone,, manny-floyd etc

[Anthony342]

Actually, I saw one or two early Roy Jones fights when I was going through his career that were on NBC, but yeah, I know what you mean, lack of major network coverage, too many belts and the best not willing to fight each other too often.

On ESPN's Friday Night Fights, Teddy Atlas even said to Andre Ward that, as a gold medalist, if he had won it 10 or 20 years before he did, he would be one of the biggest, most talked about household names in boxing.

[Panamaniac]

Earnie Shavers - who always had a puncher's chance - immediately comes to mind (although he might already been mentioned, I didn't check previous posts).

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Actually, I saw one or two early Roy Jones fights when I was going through his career that were on NBC, but yeah, I know what you mean, lack of major network coverage, too many belts and the best not willing to fight each other too often.

On ESPN's Friday Night Fights, Teddy Atlas even said to Andre Ward that, as a gold medalist, if he had won it 10 or 20 years before he did, he would be one of the biggest, most talked about household names in boxing.

yes guys coming up in the early 90s were about the last guys to get featured on network shows,,, jones, oscar, hopkins, toney etc

but fast forward from 1994 to 2004 and guys coming up like cotto, ward, diaz, taylor, manny, floyd, etc, none of those guys are ever featured on regular tv, or at least in a meaningful fights,,

now with guys like broner, garcia, donaire, etc no one knows who these guys are because the get brought up of regular tv, and are only showcased on HBO or showtime

And if guys do get on regular tv like espn then its usually a total mismatch vs some tomato can, and that doesnt excite the masses

[Suckmedry]

yes, very fringe,,, nba, nfl, mbl, nascar, golf, mma, hockey, soccer are all more popular here in the US..

Yes floyd dominates the sport, and his fights generate alot of buzz,,

But no one knows who broner or garcia or ward are,,,

The thing about boxing in the US is that it has painfully and slowly gone downhill,,

Huge and probably peaked in the 80s with SRL, tyson etc, but you can pinpoint the things that hurt boxing and made it a joke in the US

1. PPV,, once ppv started and fights left regular tv and went to HBO/showtime- the general public awareness slowly dwindled,,

2. chavez-whitaker-- huge fight but showed boxing to be crooked

3. Bowe dodging lewis and throwing belt in the garbage can

4. Tyson and all his troubles turned off alot of people and sponsors

5. All the different belts that got stripped away at heavy in the mid 90s, bowe was the first, then foreman, etc and we had champs like mccall, bruno, seldon, etc... no disrespect to those guys but seems to the general public that boxing is silly

6. Bowe-golata brawl--- just another bizarro boxing event

7. bowe-holy and fan man--- just another bizarro boxing event

8. tyson ear biting--- just another bizarro boxing event

9. by the late 90s guys like roy jones and oscar and shane should have been bigger stars but since they were never showcased on regular network tv, they didnt reach the huge levels like tyson or SRL or ali

10. Alot of big fights never got made ie tyson-holyfied in 89/90, bowe-lewis, bowe-tyson, lewis-tyson in 90s, foreman-tyson in 95, chavez-pernell 2, tito-oscar 2, roy vs anyone,, manny-floyd etc

Very true, its just the basic principles of public relations, the more accessible and familiar you are to your public, the better known and recieved you will be. The greats of yesteryear were on normal tv almost monthly or whatever, cereal boxes, magazine covers etc, nowadays we pay $50 to see them fight twice a year ?

[Anthony342]

Although I will say the one thing I like about watching boxing on premium cable now is hearing what the corner men say more often, rather than cutting to a commercial. Ann Wolfe had some good quotes last weekend working the corner for James Kirkland with lines like "you took his nuts, now take his heart" and "this is YOUR time n***a" or hearing strategy in between rounds has become commonplace the last few decades.

NBC and NBC Sports Network still feature some boxing from time to time on weekends though. Just wish they did it more often.