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Originally posted by butterfly1964
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Props Bro. NICE ALI QUOTE, BTW....that's one of my favorites.
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In a match-up such as this Lennox Lewis would give ground like he did against punchers like David Tua and to an extent Mike Tyson where his approach was to be cautious of his opponent's power. Lewis even gave ground to Ray Mercer who is not close to being in Foreman's stratosphere in terms of strength and punching power.
Lewis knows he has a vulnerable chin and therefore I cannot imagine him coming at Foreman and trading bombs. Lennox would concede that Foreman is the stronger of the two and would attempt to box Foreman as opposed to slug with him like his history against punchers would indicate. This fighting style would nullify Lewis' power somewhat and in essence turn it into a puncher vs boxer scenario.
I have difficulty imagining Foreman losing to Lewis by being outboxed by a big target who was not a particularly quick or evasive one, nor had the greatest chin.Comment
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Great synopsis.Originally posted by smasherComment
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then again lewis was light handed either!!!Originally posted by smasher
yes he would have to box,
yes he would be the underdog,
but we all seen lacey calzaghe i hope,(meaning calzaghe was suposed to get ko'ed in 5 was it)
close one, id like to say lewis, on paper its foreman!Comment
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according to you foreman is just about the strongest man in boxing history, who, by your own admission, was not a good boxer. you say that he had this power that helped to equalize fights with opponents who were technically more sound.Originally posted by Heckler
then you say that he was "psychologically ****ed" and so therefore he... was unable to fight his fight? which relied on brute strength, not boxing skill, right? there seems to be a contradiction there.
foreman was super strong, he wasnt a good boxer. it doesnt matter what was going on in his head at the time, the point is he was outboxed. plain and simple, his power couldnt change the fight if he couldnt catch up to the other guy, if he couldnt cut off the ring like a "master." he could be outboxed, by ali, a real master, and by the non-master jimmy young.
lennox lewis was a better boxer than ken norton, ron lyle and jimmy young. you could also argue that he was technically a better boxer than joe frazier. he doesnt come close to ali, but with those two exceptions, lennox is a better boxer than all of foremans quality opponents. who else did foreman beat, scott ledoux? george chuvalo? both top notch boxers, ha.
last thing im going to mention is the "glass jaw" of lennox. how do you see a glass jaw? i feel like a broken record here.
mccall and rahman, who both have respectable right hands, knocked down an out of shape lewis. he came back and kicked the **** out of both of them, taking the same exact shots he did in his losses. did his glass jaw turn into concrete only in his rematches??? or maybe only against mike tyson, evander holyfield, david tua, vitaly klitschko, ray mercer and tommy morrison AND in rematches. do any of those guys have a good punch? i guess not, because "lennox lewis had a glass jaw" and all they had to do was hit him and it was over, according to you. bull****.
if im only "an enthusiast of contemporary boxing" then you are obviously an asslicker of the boxers of yesteryear. you think those guys were gods and assume that they know tricks that todays guys dont. thats true for most boxers today, but lennox lewis was not most boxers, and he was the heavyweight champ of the world longer than foreman was.Comment
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Originally posted by Stiv Rex
Your a joke, ever heard of Logic? if so try to apply it. Foreman was psychologically ****ed and was outboxed by young because he didn't want to apply pressure. He was apprehensive and worried about tiring. Sluggers without boxing ability have to apply pressure and throw lots of punches in order to be most effective.Foreman didn't as the rumble in the Jungle was always playing on his mind. Lennox is no Ali, and only shares a few qualities. Tua didn't get a chance to land his best shots on Lennox. Out of shape or not, your jaw remains absolute after you have physically matured and Lennox got KFTO, he didn't drop as a result of mere exhaustion. Back to young, he's better then you give him credit for. He was a brilliant defensive boxer/counterpuncher and would give any modern boxer a run for there money including Lennox Lewis.
"you say that he was "psychologically ****ed" and so therefore he... was unable to fight his fight? which relied on brute strength, not boxing skill, right? there seems to be a contradiction there." - The problem is, Foreman tried to box and fight at a measured pace... the brutal, relentless slugging was essentially eliminated from his style. And it was the style that worked best for Foreman. Yes Foreman could be tired out, but there are few fighters in history that had the capacity to absorb the punishment of a peak foreman before he tired.
If you would like to stop being so moronic and slanted, look at Foremans pre 74' Career. Ill give you a little excerpt from Monte Cox, a reputable boxing historian that unlike yourself knows his ****.
"Those who believe that any “clever boxer” type could beat George often give the Jimmy Young fight as an example. Foreman showed up for this fight in San Juan the day before the fight and didn’t give himself time to get acclimated to the heat. He paced himself, fighting in his newfound measured style and did not throw a significant punch for the first 5 rounds. This was all wrong for him. The Foreman of Zaire would have tracked down Young, forced him to the ropes, went to the body with power and belted him out inside of a few short rounds. The 1973-74 Foreman, the one who cut the ring and really went after his man was the best Foreman. The George who lost to Young never really went after him. The Foreman who fought at a measured pace just was not the real Foreman." - Monte Cox
I know ive posted this earlier, but ill save you going back. READ AND LEARN FROM SOMEONE THAT DEDICATES THEIR LIFE TO WATCHING FOOTAGE AND LEARNING ABOUT THE FIGHTERS OF PAST AND PRESENT THEN MAKE INFORMED JUDGEMENTS WHILST PUTTING ANY BIAS AND FAVOURITISM ASIDE.
Ali struggled to beat Foreman, and the fact of the matter is Lennox wouldn't beat him at all.Comment
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Originally posted by Heckler
This is a matter of opinion, I do not agree with yours, you mention that you dedicate your life to studying boxing, OK, I have too, in my opinion Foreman was one dimentional and when his come forward smash them to bits style didn't work he had no plan B.
No, Lewis was no Ali boxing wise but he had far more skills than Foreman and a far bigger punch than Ali.
Foreman destroyed Frazier becuase Frazier would not back down and attempted to out punch Foreman, he could have tried a hundred times and never won, and as you know styles make fights, Frazier was made for Foreman.
The win from Ali over Foreman if you watch the fight devoid of emotion was no great shakes, Ali allowed Foreman to use him as a punch bag until Foreman ran out of steam then the rest is history.
I am not saying that Lewis WOULD have beaten Foreman but what I am saying is that Lewis was far better than he gets credit for and the fight would have been far closer than you think.
In my opinion of course!Comment
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I was referring to Monte Cox. Foreman didn't have a plan B, but at the exception of Ali he would never have to revert to a plan B would he? Lennox having a bigger punch then Ali is offset by the fact he wasn't half as dynamic, fast or adaptable as Ali. He can have all the skill in the world, thats useless when hes bustled up against those ropes.
What Ali did was nothing great? Are you nuts, having the heart, determination and will to win against all the odds wasn't great? Although it was predominatly his strong mindset and ability to absorb punishment that allowed him to win his skills played a part. Ali was able to anticipate, and roll with Foremans punches using brilliant head movement, was able to get inside Foremans head with incessant talking, countered brilliantly off the ropes using his handspeed to overwhelm Foreman - Something Lennox would not be able to do. He would increase the verocity of his attacks relative to georges tiring - he essentially executed his plan perfectly. He was glorious on that night in 74' and that cannot be denied. He even picked apart George in center-ring and was able to see that Foreman was vunerable to a lead right, something i doubt many would have the balls to throw. Throwing a cross without setting it up against a man with such power isn't recommended, but Ali knew he wasn't expecting it thus he could get away with it. Ali was analytical in the ring to an extent Lennox has never been. I think Lennox is unique, hes one of the few boxers that this slump in HW boxing has produced that will be remembered in years to come. He was a very good boxer, but not good enough for a peak Foreman.Last edited by Heckler; 03-17-2006, 05:57 AM.Comment
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Dont get me wrong Heckler, I am not critising Ali one bit, he for me is the greatest sportsman ever to live, what I was stating was that technically the way he beat Foreman was not great.
Remember the were lots of questions asked after that fight in relation to the tauntness of the ropes and Foremans lack of ability to get to an heavy and ageing Ali.
That does not detract anything from Ali's performance becuase he was way past his best (I believe the World never saw his best due to the ban) and therefore he fought the smart fight and used the fact that he knew Foreman would try to take him out and continue to do so until he either succeeded or ran out of steam.
Ali knew that the heat of Africa would sap George and fought the correct fight!
My point is that George should have known this, even if he didn't he soon found out and yet he still came forward slugging, remember Ali said he would do this prior to the fight and likened George to a 'Mummy'
George was one dimentional, who did he beat? Norton overated, Frazier OK a great fighter but ready made for Georges style.
He lost to Ali, he lost to Jimmy Young who had lost 5 fights up to that point including against Ali (Jimmy lost 19 in total)
So why do you easily say that he would defeat Lennox Lewis, who was a former undisputed three time heavyweight champion, who lost only twice in his career to which he avenged both.
Lewis beat all comers in his era, some may have been getting on in age but there was no great age difference if you look at the facts.
Like I said I am not saying Lewis would have definately won but he would have definately given George a real fight.Comment
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